The Not Drinking Alcohol Today Podcast
Meg and Bella discuss the ups and downs of navigating an alcohol free life in Australia's alcohol centric culture. This highly rated podcast, featuring in Australia's top 100 self improvement podcasts, is a must for those that are trying to drink less alcohol but need some motivation, are curious about sober life or who are sober but are looking for some extra reinforcement. The Not Drinking Alcohol Today pod provides an invaluable resource to keep you motivated and on track today and beyond. Meg and Bella's guests include neuroscientists, quit-lit authors, journalists, health experts, alcohol coaches and everyday people who have struggled with alcohol but have triumphed over it. Our aim is to support and inspire you to reach your goals to drink less or none at all! Meg and Bella are This Naked Mind Certified Coaches (plus nutritionists and counsellors respectively) who live in Sydney and love their alcohol free life.
The Not Drinking Alcohol Today Podcast
Crafting Inclusivity: The Seadrift Story
Can a passion for local flavors and a desire for inclusivity redefine an entire industry? Join us as we sit down with Carolyn Whiteley, the visionary co-founder of Seadrift Distillery, to explore her transformative journey from a career in global spirits marketing to pioneering the non-alcoholic beverage movement in Australia. Carolyn opens up about her personal relationship with alcohol and how the birth of her first child led her to reevaluate her role in the alcohol industry. She shares the inspiration behind Seadrift Distillery, a venture born out of a love for Australian produce and innovative, alcohol-free spirits made with fresh sea kelp and native ingredients.
We also delve into the creative renaissance of Alistair Whiteley, Carolyn's husband, who transitioned from running a successful design agency to rediscovering his passion for design through their new venture. Discover how Seadrift Distillery's commitment to freshness and quality is reshaping the beverage industry, with non-alcoholic cocktails gaining traction in Sydney's top venues. Learn about the small copper pot stills that set Seadrift apart and their inclusive philosophy that welcomes everyone, whether they consume alcohol or not. Celebrate with us the success of Seadrift over the past four years and get a glimpse into the exciting future of alcohol-free innovation.
Seadrift website: https://seadriftdistillery.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/seadrift_distillery/
MEG
Megan Webb: https://glassfulfilled.com.au
Instagram: @glassfulfilled
Unwined Bookclub: https://www.alcoholfreedom.com.au/unwinedbookclub
Facebook UpsideAF: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1168716054214678
Small group coaching: https://www.elizaparkinson.com/groupcoaching
BELLA
*Bi-Yearly 6-Week Small Group Challenges: Learn more: https://resources.isabellaferguson.com.au/alcoholfreedomchallenge*
Isabella Ferguson: https://isabellaferguson.com.au
Instagram: @alcoholandstresswithisabella
Free Healthy Holiday Helper Email Series: https://resources.isabellaferguson.com.au/offers/L4fXEtCb/checkout
Today's guest is Carolyn Whiteley, and Carolyn is the co-founder of Seadrift Distillery here in Sydney, right near where I live, which is very convenient. Welcome, carolyn, how are you?
Speaker 2:I'm really well, thank you.
Speaker 1:Carolyn, can I start by asking you about your alcohol journey? I know that you moderate, so I'd love to hear more about how you got to where you are and how Seadrift came about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely so. My journey really started, I suppose. Well, like everyone probably, in my, you know, 20s and teens, I was a classic teen. I loved to go out and party. Quite introverted in my nature, so you know, alcohol was always a bit of a crutch to get out of my introversion. And, you know, be able to speak freely with other people. Yep, and in my 20s I was living in London and I was working in marketing and I landed a job as innovation director for Diageo, which is one of the world's largest spirit companies.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so in that role it's, you know, most people's dream job. My job was to come up with new products for some of the core brands, including Bailey's, guinness, smirnoff, all the sort of major spirit brands, Johnny Walker and to develop those products, launch them and to look after them for the first three years of their life. So, yeah, so that's sort of where my sort of journey with alcohol began. And then, during that period and in that job, I met my husband, alistair, and we had our first child, my son, and I remember very, very clearly having a moment where I looked at him as a very young baby in my arms and thinking about going back to work and finding it very difficult to reconcile this young child with everything I knew about binge drinking and the issues around alcohol at that time, around alcohol at that time. And that was my first, I think you know, crisis moment, if you like, where it really made me question the role of alcohol, my role in promoting alcohol and the journey of what I was doing.
Speaker 1:Was it a big drinking culture in that job?
Speaker 2:Look, interestingly, there were parts you know which were sort of a heavier drinking culture but it. There were parts you know which were sort of a heavier drinking culture but it wasn't you know, it wasn't sort of alcohol fueled at all. You know the whole sort of you know drink aware stuff had had started and you know the the company was really on board with that. But um, I suppose for me personally, I I, you know, part of my portfolio was Smirnoff and it does have a younger profile and I found that quite challenging. But I also found my own relationship with alcohol challenging. You know, I didn't fall into that sort of you know alcoholic range but I didn't ever want to and I could see the path from where you go from one to the other yeah, so it sounds like I.
Speaker 1:Well, I spent time in London in my 20s as well, and that in itself was um full of partying, but it sounds like it wasn't a huge issue for you the drinking like you, you age appropriate, kind of you know at the. And so was it easy for you to make that transition? And what happened when you stopped that job?
Speaker 2:Look it was. It was a really difficult transition, to be honest, and the reason for that was you know it was, and you know would still be, in many people's view, a dream job. Right, I love innovation and I love, you know, understanding what people, what makes people tick, and you know the spirits world is is very much, you know, in terms of that type of marketing. It's really cutting edge. So I really loved all those technical sides of my job. But with young children, you know, you change, you everything, I think, and and your priorities shift at that point in your life Definitely yeah, yeah. So that was sort of the sort of beginning of a different journey. And you know, I left and I went into a different role and carved out a different job, which was great.
Speaker 2:But then fast forward a couple of years and my husband sold his business. He had a very large design agency and, um, we were at a point where we had the choice to either stay in London and continue our lives there or to try move back to Australia and see what would happen. Um, we made the jump to Australia. Um, it was uh, we had no plans about what we were going to do, how we were going to, you know, pick up this second half of our lives. And we got here and sort of looked around and thought, well, what are we going to do for work now? We looked at a number of things and then at the time my husband wanted to cut out alcohol and I bought him a bottle of Seedlip one of the first bottles and he liked it and he drank it for a bit and both of us looked at it and went you know, it's a very English flavour profile. It was, you know, garden peas and hedgerows. And we looked around us and thought you know what the thing about Australia is? We have this abundance of stunning produce right on our doorstep and we have this very different, lighter, fresher flavour profile. We eat seafoods and salads and you know, our taste of our food is full of sunshine and this sort of non-alcoholic drink doesn't go this very English flavor profile. So he got to work and he started to develop his own version of it and actually they tasted really good.
Speaker 2:So that's sort of the origins of sea drift and the name sea drift comes from the fact that we use sea kelp. That is literally foraged off the beach. It comes in with the tide and we pick it up after high tide and it is very, very fresh sea produce, and the reason we use seaweed within the drinks is it's a fantastic ingredient to act in exactly the same way alcohol does in terms of transferring flavor around the mouth. If you drink alcohol, the ethanol will hit right the back of your sort of throat, or sides of your throat, giving you that real intense flavor profile. Interestingly, we found that sea kelp does the same thing. It is a great transfer of flavor and that was one of the things we wanted in our products, because we didn't want it to be thin and we didn't want to have to use, you know, artificial flavors. We wanted it to be 100% natural and we needed this intensity, and seaweed is one of the ingredients that helps us do that.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. That sounds really, yeah, amazing, I didn't know that and very interesting, because seaweed is good for you, so it's quite a jump.
Speaker 2:It is a big jump and it sort of came through understanding you know a little bit about sort of Japanese food and understanding you know how they use it and the umami effects of it and experimenting with it from there. But the other incredible thing that's come up since then is seaweed has actually been identified as something that can be fed to cows to help them stop producing methane gas. Wow, and there's some experiments going on with the University of Queensland, some studies, and that's shown that definitely a couple of species of seaweed have shown that actually they reduce methane gas considerably. So seaweed could end up being, you know, a really important ingredient in our environmental impact as well. And we do all our waste and our seaweed does get fed to cattle in the Hunter Valley.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's so cool, Wow. So what your product is is alcohol-free gin.
Speaker 2:Alcohol-free. So we have a gin, a pink gin and a marine botanical vodka, and very soon we'll be launching our first whiskey that we've been working on for three years, so it's a very long market.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's exciting. So I have been and had the. I've had cocktails with both the vodka and the gin, alcohol-free versions, delicious, and I love being able to taste the different flavours People talk about, you know, the wines and the smoky or the woody or the fruity. And that's not the ethanol, like that is all the other products. So it's nice to just have the spotlight on, like you said, and that's not the ethanol, like that is all the other products. So it's nice to just have the spotlight on, like you said, the Australian produce and everything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just without that ethanol.
Speaker 2:Yeah, look, it's really interesting.
Speaker 2:When we started, we set ourselves some parameters about what we wanted the product to be and I mentioned before it had to be, you know, natural, and one of them was that we didn't want ethanol in the product to be and I mentioned before, it had to be, you know, natural. And one of them was that we didn't want ethanol in the product at all, and the reason for that was, initially, inclusivity. We wanted it to be something that anyone, regardless of their religion, could drink, and what that forced us to do is think about everything back to front. So why most people start thinking about, you know, taking the existing process and how you use that, and therefore you end up with alcohol extraction. We actually started at the other end and looked at it and said how do we design the process so that we don't need alcohol extraction? And looked at it from that perspective, and I think that's potentially where having a little bit of a background in the industry sort of helped just to question what we were doing and how we were doing it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, amazing. And so can I ask what makes Seadrift different to other alcohol-free spirits?
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. The difference really is the fresh botanicals. So, um, many alcohol-free brands are using purely flavorings alongside distilled water, which they're calling a distilled product. Um, and some of them are really good. Don't get me wrong, I don't. I think there's something for everyone in the market and that's up to what you are looking for. But what makes Seadrift different is that we are using fresh botanicals and huge volumes of them.
Speaker 2:So we get our botanicals in, they get cut at night, they come in through the markets, they arrive with us at 7 am in the morning and we distill within an hour. Wow, the reason we do that. It's like when you're dealing with any fresh herbs in your cooking or you know, just in your. You know, whatever you might be doing with them, you're, the longer you leave them, the less flavour they have. So getting that extraction really quickly is a key part of our process. It means that we use very small stills. So they are traditional copper pot stills, but they're tiny, and the reason for that is that allows us to do extraction very quickly of flavour. And although we don't get any of the scale of production, what we do get is this beautiful, intense, flavoured product, and our whole philosophy is around. If it tastes good and people love it, then they'll come back for more, and that's what we've really tried to do is really focus on great, great tasting quality products yeah, definitely, if, um, people want to have a look.
Speaker 1:I've got photos up on my business page, glass fulfilled on instagram. When I was there recently, took some pictures of the copper pots and beautiful drinks and the products so people can have a look. But, um, yeah, it, it's a beautiful place as well. I love the atmosphere and, in fact, where it is for people in Sydney it's in Brookvale and there's like eight or nine other breweries right around you, aren't there?
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. Brookvale is becoming this little hub of breweries and distilleries. There's, I think, three distilleries now. Okay, wow, so it's great. It's a great place that people can come and explore different things and really sort of encouraging that sort of cross-pollination between. You know people who are going to a brewery or a distillery and then coming to us or the other way around. You know, our philosophy is all around inclusion and moderation. We don't say you know you drink alcohol, therefore you can't come in. It's not like that at all. It's't say you know you drink alcohol, therefore you can't come in. It's not like that at all. It's very much saying you know what? Everyone's on a different journey and you know we're here for whenever, whether that's you're giving up a drink for a day, for a week, for a month, or if you're completely sober, that's. You know they're different journeys for different people. So, um, our job is to make sure that there's something on every menu where, no matter who you are, you can drink and enjoy something.
Speaker 1:It's so great. I love it and um, and it's. I love that it's near the other places, because people do walk by and it's. It's an opportunity to try something different and see that times have changed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely yeah, days of pineapple juice, mocktails with umbrellas sticking out the side of God, and we have some venues that are actually selling the same amount of non-alcoholic cocktails as they have cocktails, and that's hugely exciting for us. It's just the growth, and particularly in that top end. Non-alcoholic cocktails as they're cocktails, and that's hugely exciting for us is just the growth, and particularly in that top end, where we've got some incredible mixologists across sydney who can do amazing things with these products and uh, you know, that's.
Speaker 2:That's really, I think, so exciting for anyone who's sober or who wants to cut down or just wants to have less alcohol in their life. It's. The quality of what's being produced now is just completely different.
Speaker 1:It is absolutely next level. I went I went to a 50th recently. It was in it, it was at the clock, I think in um, is that Redfern or somewhere, crown Street? Yeah and um, I got the best mocktail. Like people saw me jumping out of my skin with excitement because it finally felt I don't. I haven't had many mocktails, but it was like this is amazing, it was delicious. Does your drink go out to places like Neil Perry's? Margaret?
Speaker 2:in Double Bay, we're in Key Restaurant, we are in the Oaks, in Neutral Bay Harbour Hotel, so really the whole range of different venues, from really top-end restaurants through to you know pubs and environments that you know families go to, which is great, and it's just so nice to see the entree, you know, really starting to get behind. This is a category where first, when we launched, we had a lot of, you know, rejection in the entree. They didn't want to speak to us. It was, you know, we're alcohol, we're this. But now I think they really realise the opportunity in terms of what people want and delivering what they want and also the creativity it offers them. You know, it's a whole other category where they can develop and play and do drinks in a way that is much more expressive, where, I think, alcohol, you're restricted in a lot of ways to the margarita, the cosmopolitan, the you know in on out. You can do all of those things, but you can also experiment with completely different flavors and that's really nice.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and the names are brilliant. I can't remember it was something about waking up the next day and feeling good the name of this mocktail, and also the flavours there was elderflower and lime and it probably was your gin and it was just a beautiful drink.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It was just exciting to have such a nice drink and I actually um encouraged. Well, just by my excitement, other people went and ordered it yeah, to try and it's so good and it's so uh nice to hear that your uh drinks are available at such different places as well. I mean, that's incredible and it just is a sign of the times. So how long? You said in the beginning it was harder to get into places. How long ago was that?
Speaker 2:So we launched four years ago and when we initially launched, well, we sort of launched and then we had COVID straight away and our strategy had been to go out to top bars and restaurants and get seated there. So we changed that strategy overnight. We didn't need to survive like everyone else. And then, um, you know, we came back to it probably about two years ago, but really I would say, um, acceptance and change over that two years has just been, um, you know, we wouldn't, we would rarely have a situation now where a bartender would be like no, so it's just, it's a different world, which is fantastic, because having bartenders who can make great products is critical to the category survival.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's amazing, and it really is such a short time to see such a big shift.
Speaker 2:People want it right People choice and they want change. And everyone's sick of lemon, lemon bitters 100%.
Speaker 1:And once you see it and you know what's out there, it's like you don't want to go back to that soft drink. It's incredible and I love that. People like you said they might just be wanting a break for that day from alcohol, or it might be a week or whatever it is. It's becoming far more socially acceptable to do the non-alcoholic way, even though you know you feel it should be totally fine but it hasn't been, and so it's lovely to see that it is becoming a lot easier for people to have that way of life, however long or short, they want to do that for. And what kind of what's the clientele like that you get in?
Speaker 2:um into the bar itself. Um, it's really mixed, so we'll get um. We'll get like women who, who are sort of going through, um, you know, just a period of re-evaluation of their life, want to get healthier, fitter, and that can be like after they've just had a child. That's a key time. Could be I'm trying to get pregnant, want to take alcohol out of my life because, you know, I want to be in the best shape when I do fall pregnant. Could be 50-year-olds tend to be change of life, really re-evaluate, and also they feel quite different about how alcohol affects them often. So that's a key time.
Speaker 2:But we get men, we get, you know, we've had 18 year old guys who you would never expect. Yeah, um, turn up and say, oh, yeah, you know I don't drink, and really interesting. And we get, you know, we have a beautiful, beautiful customer who she's probably 89 or something. She said, lovey, you know what, I actually mix it with a bit of gin, but I used to have two shots and now I only have one. So lovely, you know, for helping her cut down.
Speaker 1:Oh, 100%, absolutely. Well, I've been in a couple of times and it's just been a beautiful place and lovely atmosphere and incredible drinks. I mean, when you say there's an art to it, you know these mixologists um, beautiful, beautiful drinks, and you just feel doing, you're doing something special for yourself, it's really nice, and then you're being healthy as well and I love that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is. Yeah, thank you, megan. We really, you know, pride ourselves on trying to make a category that people would want to be in. You know, we're really proud of the fact that we are Australia's first non-alcoholic distillery, and even more so that most recently on the World Alcohol Free Awards, we actually got two silver medals in those awards, which, as a small Australian brand, is just punching so far above our weight. So we were really really excited to see that the products do stand up on a world stage.
Speaker 1:That's brilliant Congratulations. That is so great. Stage that's brilliant Congratulations. That is so great. So I've been to a an event um Sarah Rusbach, who I've had on the podcast. She had an event there that I went to and that was so much fun, Um, really, really fun. Yes, yes, there was great. And then I went recently it was the um, was it a? It was a weekend when people went to the different distillery and breweries around there. What was that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was Brookie Fest. So Brookie Fest, yes, encouraging everyone to come down and check out Brookfest.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:The distillery will be open over dry July. It will be open on a Friday and a Saturday and we'll be running classes, all sorts of classes, from mixology classes through to native garnishing, to like a sip and paint with native botanicals and the seaweeds that we use, and lots of really interesting little things that sounds brilliant. Yeah, so you can check it out on the website and see what's going on, or just come down and enjoy, you know, some cocktails, some lobster rolls and oh yeah, the lobster roll.
Speaker 1:I had that last time. Delicious, um, very, very yummy. And also I think I'm well, I'm in the process of planning with a friend, mags to do an event at your autism workshop and then we'll go on to the mixology after.
Speaker 2:Yeah, fantastic, we're looking forward to that yeah, that'll be so cool and it is a you know that's. It's a great venue and it can't hide out privately as well, it's not. It's a nice size for that because it sort of holds, you know, sort of 40 to 60 people, so it's it's quite intimate and uh and different as a venue yeah, amazing.
Speaker 1:So anyone that's in sydney listening or you know australia um, check it out. I'll put the details in the show notes and you've got like the inside is gorgeous, I love it. And then you've got the armchairs outside and it's just a lovely atmosphere.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just nice and laid back and it's a nice place to. It's a lovely place to work and a lovely place to relax.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely. So I look forward to spending more time there, for sure, but I'll get everyone to jump in and have a look and check out my Instagram for photos, because I took photos of the beautiful bottles you have and the gorgeous drink and and the lobster roll yeah, I know I'm obsessed by lobster rolls oh, so good. And with your bottles they are really beautiful. Who does that artwork?
Speaker 2:um, that's Alistair. So, yeah, so in his previous life, ali had a design agency in London and Seattle and lots of offices around the world. Um, he was, you know, a very top designer and, uh, when he sold that business, he thought I'm never designing again. He had 200 designers working for him. He was like I'm over it. Um, but now he does all our work. So we're very, very lucky to have that now.
Speaker 1:It's a work of passion for him. So, exactly, yeah, oh, that's lovely. It's great that you both could bring your past skills, you know, and and create this, because it's, it's fantastic and, um, congratulations again on your awards. It's, it's brilliant and it's really exciting. It's exciting, you know, what's happening in the AF world.
Speaker 2:It is, yeah, yeah it is. You know it's been a lot of work. You know four years of really really hard work, yeah, but we're, you know, really proud of where it is now and you know, to be able to do something that is world-class. You know, out of Brookvale is really lovely.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. Well, thank you so much for coming on and sharing about that and introducing everyone to your amazing distillery and, like I said, information will be in the show notes, but thank you for joining me, carolyn.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you so much, megan, I really enjoyed having a chat.
