The Not Drinking Alcohol Today Podcast
Meg and Bella discuss the ups and downs of navigating an alcohol free life in Australia's alcohol centric culture. This highly rated podcast, featuring in Australia's top 100 self improvement podcasts, is a must for those that are trying to drink less alcohol but need some motivation, are curious about sober life or who are sober but are looking for some extra reinforcement. The Not Drinking Alcohol Today pod provides an invaluable resource to keep you motivated and on track today and beyond. Meg and Bella's guests include neuroscientists, quit-lit authors, journalists, health experts, alcohol coaches and everyday people who have struggled with alcohol but have triumphed over it. Our aim is to support and inspire you to reach your goals to drink less or none at all! Meg and Bella are This Naked Mind Certified Coaches (plus nutritionists and counsellors respectively) who live in Sydney and love their alcohol free life.
The Not Drinking Alcohol Today Podcast
Exploring ADHD and Neurodiversity with Faye Lawrence
Ever wondered how ADHD manifests differently in children and adults, or between males and females? In our latest episode, we promise to provide those answers and more with the help of our returning guest, Faye Lawrence. Now a specialized coaching therapist, Faye shares her journey of being diagnosed with ADHD in 2022 and offers a unique perspective on understanding the three types of ADHD: inattentive, hyperactive, and combined. Get ready to uncover the high heritability of ADHD and its intersections with other neurodiverse conditions like autism and OCD.
The journey to an ADHD diagnosis is often fraught with challenges, from navigating referrals to battling the shortage of specialists. We'll discuss these hurdles in depth and explore the complex relationship between ADHD and self-medication. Faye sheds light on how neurotransmitter deficiencies drive individuals to seek external stimuli, often leading to self-medication behaviors tied to feelings of low self-esteem and failure. Our conversation also tackles the potential for overdiagnosis and the varied experiences people face when seeking a diagnosis.
Awareness of neurodiversity is slowly reshaping societal structures, but there's still much to be done. Traditional work environments can be especially tough for those with ADHD and similar conditions. We advocate for more inclusive settings, referencing Tom Hartman's hunter-gatherer theory to highlight how modern environments may not suit neurodiverse individuals. Faye shares practical advice for managing ADHD's everyday challenges, from sensory sensitivities to the hidden toll on high-performing individuals. Tune in for an enlightening discussion on ADHD and addiction, ending with a message of understanding and compassion that aims to shift perceptions and promote a more inclusive society.
Faye's website: www.fayelawrence.com.au
Faye's blog: https://www.fayelawrence.com.au/blog/i-think-i-have-adhd
Other info on ADHD:
https://allbrainsbelong.org/all-the-things/
https://neurodivergentinsights.com/blog/autism-and-health-issues
MEG
Megan Webb: https://glassfulfilled.com.au
Instagram: @glassfulfilled
Unwined Bookclub: https://www.alcoholfreedom.com.au/unwinedbookclub
Facebook UpsideAF: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1168716054214678
Small group coaching: https://www.elizaparkinson.com/groupcoaching
BELLA
*Bi-Yearly 6-Week Small Group Challenges: Learn more: https://resources.isabellaferguson.com.au/alcoholfreedomchallenge*
Isabella Ferguson: https://isabellaferguson.com.au
Instagram: @alcoholandstresswithisabella
Free Healthy Holiday Helper Email Series: https://resources.isabellaferguson.com.au/offers/L4fXEtCb/checkout
On today's episode, I'd like to welcome back Faye Lawrence. I've had Faye on before and you can go back and listen to that episode, but I've asked Faye to come back because she is now a coaching therapist specializing in ADHD, addiction and anxiety. So welcome to the podcast again, Faye.
Speaker 2:Double whammy. Thanks for having me on again, megan, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Faye, double whammy. Thanks for having me on again, megan, I appreciate it. I think you were my first ever guest. Wow, yeah, I know that was nearly two years. Oh, a year and a half ago. Time flies.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and look at you.
Speaker 1:now we're nearly at 100 episodes, which is very exciting, Gosh well done. Yeah, and look at you. So I have a big interest in ADHD. I do work with kids with autism and a lot of them have ADHD, but I find that a lot of clients and people I'm meeting as adults are becoming diagnosed with ADHD. So I'm really interested to get your point of view on all of this. And so can we start with just hearing a bit about ADHD and what it is, what is it and what are the symptoms.
Speaker 2:Oh, there's so much to say about it. I'll try and keep it brief because I can. This is my area of special interest since I got diagnosed in 2022. So I've really gone down the rabbit hole on this one. So with ADHD, there are three types. There is the inattentive, so that is the type that you would typically think of that isn't paying attention, is distracted, can't focus, is not really listening, zoning out, looking out the window very forgetful, you know, loses listening. Zoning out, looking out the window very forgetful, um, you know, loses train of thought often. Um could do well if only they just concentrate on the school reports or stop talking, or so that's the inattentive type.
Speaker 2:Then you've got the hyperactive type, which is typically what we think of as like the naughty school boy who won't sit down, who's you know, running around, and destructive and full of energy. And that's not necessarily a typical presentation. It may be in youth, but often in adulthood it can present quite differently with the hyperactivity. So the hyperactivity can be both internal and external. So for the external of us, even if we're not running around in the boardroom or, you know, whatever it might be, we might have difficulty sitting down for long periods of time in meetings we might have difficulty sitting down to watch a movie from. You know, go to woe. We might be the leg jigglers always needing to fidget and look around. And you know, adhders really struggle with just focusing like this. We look around, that helps us concentrate and process information. But also there's the internal hyperactivity. So that is that can be.
Speaker 2:When you see this more in women, I think it's really important to mention that there's distinct differences often between the male and the female presentation, which is part of the reason why, um, females tended to be, you know, getting diagnosed at my age, essentially because it's gone undetected.
Speaker 2:So we often will experience the internal hyperactivity which can present as either the noise, chatter in the head, the incessant ping, ping, ping, ping, ping, ping, ping, ping, 20 tabs open at once, which is on a good day, it's more likely to be 200. The thoughts jump around and around, they circle day and it's kind of like I've heard it described, as you know, on those game shows when someone walks into the booth and the money's all flying around and they're trying to grab the money. You know, it's kind of like that with the thoughts, because it's like if I don't grab the thought I'll forget it, and also with the internal hyperactivity, it can feel like there's a motor going, the restlessness, the inner restlessness inside, where it just feels like you can never really relax. Um, so there's the inattentive and the hyperactive, and then there's also the combined, which is both, which is which is the one that I've got right and very interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I didn't know there were three types, so that's really interesting. Um, actually, my son was seeing a psychologist who suggested he might have ADHD and I was. I was interested because it wouldn't occur to me he does. He has gotten in trouble at school and what runs in the family is easily distracted. Potential, like you said, has potential if you could just sit and concentrate. But yeah, it didn't come across as a typical. He doesn't come across as a typical. What I would think is ADHD, but hearing you speak about that kind of makes sense. Probably the first one. So not the hyperactivity.
Speaker 2:Um, inattentive, yeah the inattentive, even with the males, can tend to get missed, because they can be the ones looking out the classroom window, miles away, still doing quite okay at school. Um, their performance doesn't really seem to be that impaired, they just have a problem with concentrating. Um, yeah, so it's. It's uh, often missed in males with that one. So I think, I think, um, it's also worth mentioning that you know often when the child gets diagnosed, that is when the parent will get diagnosed or become aware that it may be in the mix for them, because there's 80% heritability with ADHD.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:So it's almost inevitable that there's going to be a parent. And what we see commonly as well is autism. So it's one of the neurodiverse conditions, for want of a better word or presentations, and OCD is another one. Then you've got dyspraxia, dyscalculia, so there's a whole rock sort of sitting in this pool of neurodiverse conditions, and you rarely see that someone's presenting with just one thing. Yeah, with just one thing, yeah, um. There's often a few, a few, a few little, uh, you know, surprises in the box. When it all comes out yeah, um.
Speaker 2:But it is a neurodevelopmental condition.
Speaker 2:So that means generally, it is believed, that you're born with it.
Speaker 2:It essentially means that your prefrontal cortex, the part of the brain that is responsible for the executive functioning, what I call like the parenting part of the brain, the sensible part of the brain, the part of the brain that you know is around long-term gratification, not doing things in the moment and waiting till later, being able to prioritize, being able to do things methodically, being able to, you know, remember and apply information in a way where you can prioritise and you can also put off what you want to do in the moment until later.
Speaker 2:In pursuit of the thing that we must do. We also really struggle with time blindness as well, because time is not linear for us. It generally falls into two categories now and not now. So it's a neurodevelopmental condition and it is handed down the generations and once the diagnosis is seen in the family, you can generally look back over the family and go oh yeah, this one's autistic, oh yeah, this one's ADHD, oh yeah, this one's. You can really see in the family because you only know what you know and often what you'll find is that all of you, or the majority of you, are neurodivergent because we naturally gravitate towards each other. It's, it's just what we just do, like when I got diagnosed.
Speaker 2:Um, since then, the majority of my friends have been diagnosed well and I generally find if I get on gel really well with someone and we just kind of hit it off and we, we, we get each other, I usually find that they're probably ADHD, whether they know it or not yeah, well anecdotally speaking. This is totally unscientific, but it is well you know. They might come back to me in you know, six months, 12, whatever, and say, oh yeah, actually. So it's been astonishing the amount of people in recovery who are being diagnosed, absolutely astonishing.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's what is so interesting to me as well, you know. Do you know why or what the connection is?
Speaker 2:Yeah, huge. So up to 43% of people with ADHD in the most recent meta-analysis in 2021 will experience an alcohol use disorder. Wow, that's just alcohol.
Speaker 1:Yeah right.
Speaker 2:Then you've got drugs, you've got food is massive.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Spending is another real issue. Impulsive spending um with food it tends to be more binge eating disorder. Um, you've also got sex. You've got, uh, gambling. You've got tech is huge, absolutely huge, wow.
Speaker 2:And the reason for all of this? Well, there's a lot of reasons, but part of it is because of issues that we have with impulsivity, delaying gratification. But the reason that we in this prefrontal cortex area, they can show under, they found in studies that it's up to 30 percent um underdeveloped in comparison to a very typical brain and the neurotransmitters, that is, the chemical messengers between the brain and the body, that kind of, you know, we all are familiar with, like serotonin in depression, which is now being, you know, contentious as to whether that was actually ever a thing, but that's for another conversation. But with ADHD, it's dopamine predominantly and noradrenaline. Dopamine is responsible for motivation, right, it's responsible for, or it plays a role in, reward, and so what we're doing is in the use of these substances when our dopamine is much more level than the average person. So we're needing the dopamine to get up, get out of bed, get out the door, remember all the things that we need to do. Be methodical, you know, like I've got to remember to take my lunch. I've got to remember to da-da-da-da, I've got to remember, and I've got to go from here to here and oh, what was the address again? And oh, yeah, no, that was right, I was supposed to pick the dog, drop the dog off on the way, and you know all of these things that can feel like just completely overwhelming Dopamine is playing.
Speaker 2:These neurotransmitters that we're deficient in are playing a role for neurotypical people in being able to get them to do all the things that are required for daily life. We have less of that and so, as a result, we are dopamine-seeking wherever we can, and that is in the substances or the, because we're just trying to get up to a baseline that neurotypical people have without having to do anything. But in addition to that, we've also got a lot of the negative impacts that come with ADHD. So we're self-medicating. So the sense of failure that we come at a brutal inner critic that's saying, why can't you? Just what we've probably received? Research shows a lot, a lot of negative messages over the years from teachers at work, from friends. You know flakiness, not doing things that we, you know forgetting things, you know not being consistent, starting courses or hobbies or any of this, and then giving it up really quickly. You know, like just all of the adulting things, we've received a huge amount of negative messages, so we're now doing it on autopilot. We're constantly feeling our self-esteem is taking a knocking just by existing. So, uh, we, you know we're self-medicating.
Speaker 2:There's often also another mental health condition. I think it's around 80 percent of adhd's have another diagnosable mental health condition. Um, but the constant state of overwhelm that we can find ourselves in as well, not understanding why we're doing what we're doing. So I, I want to do the thing, the thing's over there, I need to do the thing. I can't make myself do the thing. It's just a basket of washing. Why can't I put it away to the point where, literally, I can't get off the couch, you know.
Speaker 2:And anxiety, social anxiety, the feeling of not belonging, not quite getting it, you know there's a lot of reasons, but the restlessness, the being unable to relax, is another thing. So there's a massive amount of reasons why we are turning towards things outside of ourselves to try and manage, really to just try and manage. And you know I must have been. When I stopped drinking, it was about three years in and I was like something's not right. Something is not right. I don't know what it is, but it's not. I do not feel this sense of calm that other people are talking about. I constantly feel like there's a motor running inside. You really start to realise, once you get a diagnosis, that it's so understandable that we would turn to these things to manage because it's really hard. It's actually really hard.
Speaker 1:And how do you get the diagnosis? Like what's the process?
Speaker 2:It's so un-ADHD friendly, it's not funny oh no.
Speaker 2:Honestly, it's painful, I've got to be honest. So they're not easy to get. You know there's a lot of I'm sure we'll touch on this about the overdiagnosis and while I don't disagree about that and there's reasons that that may be the case, in some instances it's actually a really laborious process to get diagnosed. So anyone who was just wanting the label and wanting to get medicated, you know there'd be easier ways of going about it, yeah, um. So basically you've got to go to your gp and get a referral. You have to get a referral for either clinical psychologist or psychiatrist who can diagnose. Usually you're going to have to go through a few sessions with them. They want to see that symptoms have been present before the age of 12. So this might involve school reports.
Speaker 2:You will usually have to involve other people, so, whether that's family members that can speak to your history or other people that are close to you, they need to rule out a lot of other overlapping conditions.
Speaker 2:So PTSD is one of them, things like bipolar, narcissistic personality disorder, borderline yeah, there's a whole raft of conditions they need to check and those things can co be, you know, in the mix as well be comorbid, but, um, they want to make sure that the adhd is also there and it's not an exact science at the end of the day. Um, so you have to go through that process that'll likely do testing and then should you get the diagnosis. So for me that was, I think, three or four sessions. Then you have to get, if you would like medication and if you've been to a clinical psychologist, they can't do that, which means you've then got to go and see a psychiatrist to get the meds. Do that, which means you've then got to go and see a psychiatrist to get the meds, and there's a massive, massive shortage in this country of psychiatrists. Wow. So you might be looking for up to a six-month wait just to get in to see for the initial appointment.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, very interesting and it's extremely expensive. There's no support in terms of financial assistance, so you're probably looking at a couple of grand wow okay, um. So my advice to that would be if anyone's considering it, do your homework first. It do your homework first, find out someone who's good and ask your gp to refer to them.
Speaker 1:Don't just go with the luck of the draw gosh. Um.
Speaker 2:So I didn't realize it was such a long process either, or in depth yeah, it can be, but then I've had other friends who've just literally gone in, had one session and been diagnosed.
Speaker 1:Yes, yep, yep, I've heard that too. Fill out the form and you're diagnosed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I had a friend who was diagnosed and given a prescription in one session.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you really want to go the longer route, and could that be why there's over-diagnosis? I mean, that's too quick, it seems.
Speaker 2:In my opinion, I believe that that is too quick, yes, but as for the overdiagnosis, I think what we're seeing is we're playing catch-ups for a huge amount of adults that you know, I mean, they believe that kids grew out of it at the age of 18, and they didn't factor women in full. Stop, really females. None of the research was done on women or females. So you've got, you know, generations of women now who, because their kids are getting diagnosed, are going oh well, it's just like me, or she's just like me. Oh, we've always done that in our family. Yeah, yeah, haven't you? Yeah, this is why so many women now, in particular of my sort of age you know, I'm 50, but 30 to I mean, I've seen people who are in their 70s getting diagnosed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think back to school and I was definitely that kid that was. I was hyperactive, I did climb out windows. I wasn't naughty, I wasn't bad, I wasn't rude, but I gave the teachers a run for their money. Have schools improved? What do you think about the whole school situation with it? Because have they got better at dealing with kids that might have ADHD?
Speaker 2:I think they have. I think, yes, we are getting better, but I don't think schools are equipped, because the level of support that's required for all the conditions that we're seeing coming up and coming out now means that, you know, I think ultimately we're going to see probably about 20% of the population is neurodiverse Currently.
Speaker 2:Now I think it's about 5% ADHD, I think, as we're becoming much more aware of the diversity of the way that people think and their brains work, we're going to see and learn and process information and, you know, thrive and flourish and the different strengths with these different brain types, we're going to see that our existing systems do not work for a significant portion of the population, and that's going to be at work as well, because we don't do well in open plan offices. We don't do well when there's a lot of noise. We don't do well when there's a lot of noise. We don't do well when there are not.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, necessarily well, if you're autistic, you don't do well, for example, with nuance. You need very clear instructions. Um, you know, some people find the social side of things incredibly draining. Um, really, you know, and that's and that's adhd is well, the non-extravert ADHD. So we really, I think, are going to have to see, essentially, a complete reorganising or dismantling of these current systems, because I think, once it becomes clear how many people are neurodiverse, it's just going to be discriminatory to do anything other than that. That's my belief anyway, whether that's right or wrong, because I just think that we're trying to fit everyone into this mould. That has really negative impacts on people throughout their lives and this is shown in the research about the poorer outcomes to people, neuro-diverse people, whether that's work, whether it's relationships, whether it's friendships, whether it's addiction, so on and so forth. Mental health, and a lot of it, is. It's not belonging, it's not fitting in, it's not understanding what the rules are and constantly being told that you're failing and you're doing it wrong.
Speaker 2:Yeah, wow Because we're not doing it on purpose, any more than someone who's in a wheelchair who can't get up and walk. That's the reality, but it just looks like because we don't look. You know why can't you get there on time? Because I don't process time in the same way. I'm really, really trying my best I was probably preparing for this for the past couple of days to set a timer and do this and do that, and I still can't manage it.
Speaker 2:But people don't see that. They just see that you didn't turn up on time and that's a deal breaker because you're five minutes late also, you know whatever it is. Or they don't see the amount of distress that goes on behind the scenes when you just can't do the thing in the way that other people do, when you're in overwhelming paralysis, when you're in burnout because you don't understand time in the same way and you've taken on so much and you thought you could do it all you legitimately did. You find yourself again totally over committed and you and you've hit a wall. Because we don't often learn from the previous times. Each time we're doing it it's like a new thing again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, very interesting. So do you think it's and I get this question a lot because I work with kids with autism do you think it's a new thing, or it's an undiagnosed thing in the past? Or what do you think is the reason that there seems to be so much?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think in our species we really do tend to, you know, unpalatable things tend to get phased out through the evolutionary process. To get phased out through the evolutionary process Not always, obviously, but there is research that has been given some more legs in recent times about an evolutionary underpinning to neurodiverse conditions, and that is around Tom Hartman's hunter-gatherer theory. So he came out with a book I think it was about two decades ago on this, which was a hunter in a farmer's world or something like that, and basically what the theory is. And they are showing, as I say, recently that research has come out to back this up there was an evolutionary imperative for the neurodiverse brains in that, with ADHD, for example, you needed hunters. When we were in small tribes, which we have been for the majority of the time we have existed on this planet you needed hunters to be able to look for food, to keep guard, to protect. So basically, interest-based and opportunity-based brains and threat-based brains, so brains that are more finely attuned to the environment because they're always looking out for the thing that they can get. So ooh, which is why we're so good with ideas. Ooh, there's an idea, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh. But also, you know, so there's a oh my God, there's a deer over there. Ooh, brilliant, everything lights up, go. Or there's a threat We've got to protect, we've got to, you know. So we're more. We can see the rustle in the grass, we can see the. You know we're wired for that.
Speaker 2:But with that hunter-gatherer theory we can't toil in the fields day in, day out doing the same thing. We'll be bored, shitless in five seconds. We can't tolerate it. We work in sprints like a hunter. So you go, go, go, go, go, go, go chasing the animal for however long, and then we need to rest. We can't do the consistent same in same out all the way through. We need variety.
Speaker 2:Whereas a farmer can do those things. That's the neurotypical. They can. They can just somehow, magically I don't know how they can do it they can go to the 9 to 5 job. They don't have the necessary, that sort of feeling of needing to tear off your skin because you're just so bored. You know like, oh God, this is, I can't keep doing. We need variety, we need stimulation, we need things to keep us engaged. So there is this sort of understanding coming through now that neurodiverse people are more finely tuned to the environment because of these evolutionary underpinnings. But in our modern day world, when you've got to sit down at a desk for eight hours, that's really hard to do and then we punish people for it. You know like why can't you sit down? Well, because we're not made to. Who came up with this?
Speaker 2:idea this is ridiculous. It's the, you know, the um, the, the industrialization. I suppose if, if we were still out in those old tribes, this wouldn't be a maladaptive way of uh being in the world, it would be an advantage, yes so, so interesting.
Speaker 1:And I look at my kids now at the school I work and so many people are like, come and sit down, come and sit down. And I just don't get that, because these kids first of all have autism and I was taught something called double empathy. Let's come from their brain and they don't want to bloody sit down, like some of them will learn from walking around in circles, listening, it's just, but it just, yes, it's. I see it in my class, but I feel like I want it to go to all schools where you need the movement break, you need the brain break. We're not all going to learn by sitting and looking.
Speaker 2:It's just not working it's not working because interest stimulation lights us up. You know, adhd is often do well in really fast-paced environments like emergency departments or media advertising. Go, go, go go. We're brilliant at troubleshooting. We're brilliant at thinking on our feet. We're brilliant at adapting to crises. We're. This is where we're like, yeah, we're, we're getting so much energy out of this, but we do need. We do need to have time out as well.
Speaker 2:But the masking that we do to get through time, to fit in and be quote-unquote normal and to make ourselves less often finds people addicted or people burnt out later and also having a crisis of identity Like who the hell am I? I don't know, because I've had to play this role for so long to just try and get by. That I don't know. I've lost myself because I've had to make myself small, so I don't piss people off, so I don't get others offside. To be inauthentic is quite painful for us because we really value straight talking. We really value people that just tell it like it is, which is why in the recovery community you're like yeah, I found my tribe. Because here we all are. We're dumping our trauma on each other within the first five seconds, like we're not doing the shallow end of the pool, like we, we, you know. It's quite refreshing. It's like wow, yeah, we're all here, we're all messed up, we've all had, you know, and no one's trying to hide it exactly it's.
Speaker 1:It's safe to share and to be accepted.
Speaker 2:It's like yes but we, we, we don't tend to also do just small talk, which we, we often hate. It's just straight into the tough, gritty stuff. You know we're not interested in the what did you watch on tv or any of that. Who cares? Bring it on to your childhood trauma and your. You know difficulties that you're having in your life. Brilliant, this is the stuff we can.
Speaker 2:We can hold a lot of shame about these parts of ourselves, like the oversharing. You know, like how, before you got into recovery and maybe afterwards, you go and you catch up with people and you come away and you feel this oh no, I've done it again. I've overshared because I got excited. So this is how the anxiety becomes so embedded, because we're so used to not really understanding how we're getting it wrong and nervous systems are also more finely tuned, highly primed to the environment. You know we've got this thing where we're looking over things that we've done, like social events, and going, oh no, you overshared again. Oh no, you spoke too much, you talked too much, you kept interrupting, you did that stupid thing, whatever it is. And you know there's a lot of that shame that comes up, I think because we've just had a lifetime of it. And the reality is that messaging, that incessant messaging that we're picking up, either you know that has been expressed or we've just understood implicitly from vibes, or you know body language or whatever, means that we you know. It takes a real toll behind the scenes. It takes a real toll on how we show up in the world, on our self-esteem, on perpetuating anxiety, you know. And this is where a diagnosis can be really really helpful, actually, whether self-diagnosis or otherwise, because you can start coming to that process of really accepting and understanding and you can also start giving yourself permission a lot more because you're like, well, you know, I've been curtailing these parts of myself for so long and I'm just not going to do it anymore.
Speaker 2:And that goes, that extends to the sensory stuff as well. So, for example, you know, I found when I stopped drinking I really didn't like loud environments in the way that I thought I did loud, very busy environments and I thought, oh, maybe I'm just a bit more introverted. But now I know, when I go with friends who are ADHD so I might go to a cafe, if it's too loud, I can't be in the environment for long because it's too distracting to me. And from a sensory perspective the auditory I have misophonia. The auditory I have misophonia, which means that loud like the noises, I just can't concentrate, like I can't take my focus off the thing that is rage-inducing to me.
Speaker 2:The other one is impatience, obviously, but what I call this is my unofficial diagnostic criteria pavement rage, people in your way or slow. So if you're walking, you know people think about road rage in the car we have it on the pavement, on the. What do you call them? Yeah, we have it walking, don't care if you're slow. But if you call them, yeah, we have it walking, don't care if you're slow. But if you're blocking the path because you want to move, you want to keep it rolling. Yeah, you know, and often we hate supermarkets anyway, from a sensory the lights, the you know it's boring, it's all of these things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Money is another area that often so many of us really struggle with. It's too boring, so our finances can be in disarray because and then there's the adhd tax, which is like we've got a fine and we've forgotten to pay it, and or, you know, we we signed up for that course and we've never looked at it again, or like there's a lot with the ADHD tax, as they call it, which just means that we end up spending a lot more money on things because of the ADHD. So it's important to remember as well that you know ADHD is a part of us. We've also got our personal characteristics. We've got the environments that we grew up in that have maybe taught us ways to manage, and you know we have this misconception as well that you know a lot of ADHD is that lives are falling apart, they're not doing well, and that can certainly be the case.
Speaker 2:But I see a lot of incredibly high-performing ADHD women, perfectionistic, very organised. But it's really taking it out of them behind the scenes, because for us to perform at a neurotypical level takes so much more effort from our executive functioning, which we've already got less of, because one of my children is adult children who's like this very, very organised, very meticulous, very. But what can happen is if you've got a 2 o'clock appointment and you're at home, you can't do anything else for the rest of the day because you're worried about being late for the appointment. So it's like, oh, I better not get started on something. You hear that quite often. Or you're having to spend so much time on the organizing the lists and the this, that and the other, because I do this too. We can learn ways to manage, often quite well, but then it will be something like pregnancy or menopause right, yeah, yeah, yeah and the interaction between all lots of adhd's or neurodiverse women have um pmdd the interaction with hormones can be absolutely brutal.
Speaker 1:Right, yes, that reminds me when I was pregnant, I had my first migraine. It was very hormone-related, but I have hit menopause and I use that as my excuse for forgetting everything. I've always been a bit forgetful, but it's next level.
Speaker 2:Next level my kids thought I had without even making a joke of it, thought I was getting early onset Alzheimer's, and it can also help when you start retrospectively looking over the family. So within my family, for example, you know it did help me, um, maybe be a bit more understanding about some of the things that are presented in my family.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Around addiction, for example. Yeah, around very what as a child, would have seemed like incredibly selfish behaviour, mm-hmm and uncaring. Yeah, you know, it doesn't change it, of course, but it helps contextualise it, I think in a slightly different way it did for me, yeah, yeah, and I can also see how my own parenting has impacted my kids, because it's like, yeah, I was distracted a lot. I was, you know, we only told you that yesterday. Hey, you know, I don't like mushrooms.
Speaker 1:You know, whatever first world problems and I think for anyone with addiction, like for me, I'll talk about myself. Um, having stopped, there's something under that. There's a reason, yeah, that I drank. So, whatever it is, I'm on a journey to find the authentic me and work out, and I'm studying to be a trauma coach and I'm doing internal family systems.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I love Iofis.
Speaker 1:Yes, I know, and I've just started on it, so I see a lot of things there, you know. So I'm very open to there's a lot of things at play and working on it all. But yeah, this has just been so eye-opening and it's just another piece of the puzzle. I encourage anyone listening to look into it if they have resonated. But other than that, just being aware of other people, because we've all got someone in our life with ADHD, I would say or autism, or autism.
Speaker 2:yes, someone in our life with ADHD, I would say. Or autism.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I read a book back when my 18 year old she was born and it was the four a's. It was ADHD, autism, anxiety and allergies and it linked them all. Very interesting book. I can't remember who wrote it, but my daughter was born with a severe egg allergy. Still has it at 18.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my two both have allergies.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I looked into that back then and they linked those four things.
Speaker 2:There's actually a huge evidence base with a lot of conditions that are health-related. So hypermobility, chronic pain. Oh, because of the tension that we hold in our bodies and because of interoception, it's very hard for us to pick up on our body's cues. So you know how, like you get fixated on something that you're working on, you're in flow those times that we do get that and you just forget to go to the toilet, you forget to eat, you forget to, and in therapy you might have been asked you know, where does that? Where do you feel that in your body? What color is it what? No idea. What are you talking about? Like what are you talking about? What color is it? What temperature is it what? Yeah, there's a.
Speaker 2:There's a massive evidence based on a whole raft of health conditions that are much more prevalent in neurodiverse populations, including allergies. The anxiety is huge because when you're living constantly not understanding what the rules are, having to rein yourself in, not understanding why you can't do things, trying to hold on to every thought that comes into your head in case it's an important something you need to do, it's exhausting because the fatigue ends up catching up with you. And that's where you're talking about these immune system things, because our nervous systems are just constantly taking a battering. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:So I'll send you some info on that.
Speaker 1:Actually yes, that would be great, and any I can put everything in the show notes too, which would be awesome.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna have to let you go yeah, sorry I've been blathering on, I've got, we've gone over time well, it's been so, so interesting and we're gonna have to just do another one at some point, because there's probably heaps of things that I've actually forgotten to say not at all.
Speaker 2:This has been amazing and I'd love to continue the conversation, but yeah, I'll put any information in the show notes and I will be excited to read it all too well, I've got something on a blog one of the very few blogs on my website about what to do if you think you've got ADHD and like the initial screener that people can have a look at just to get an idea.
Speaker 1:That'd be great. So I'll put your website and everything as well. But thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Oh pleasure. Thanks for inviting me. I really appreciate it and I love, as you can probably tell, can talk to the cows. Come home on this subject. I love it so much. It's just people need to know because it can take the shame out of the addiction when you start to realize that what's underlying, like you say absolutely yeah, gone are the days of alcoholic.
Speaker 1:I'll tell you that it's um. Yeah, there's things that's right. Thanks so much, bay you're welcome.
Speaker 2:Thanks, megan. Speak to you soon. Bye.
