The Not Drinking Alcohol Today Podcast
Meg and Bella discuss the ups and downs of navigating an alcohol free life in Australia's alcohol centric culture. This highly rated podcast, featuring in Australia's top 100 self improvement podcasts, is a must for those that are trying to drink less alcohol but need some motivation, are curious about sober life or who are sober but are looking for some extra reinforcement. The Not Drinking Alcohol Today pod provides an invaluable resource to keep you motivated and on track today and beyond. Meg and Bella's guests include neuroscientists, quit-lit authors, journalists, health experts, alcohol coaches and everyday people who have struggled with alcohol but have triumphed over it. Our aim is to support and inspire you to reach your goals to drink less or none at all! Meg and Bella are This Naked Mind Certified Coaches (plus nutritionists and counsellors respectively) who live in Sydney and love their alcohol free life.
The Not Drinking Alcohol Today Podcast
Chris Gimpel: Cheers to a Hangover-Free Aussie Festive Season
Chris Gimpel, Head of Client Engagement at the Clean Slate Clinic and a Smart Recovery Facilitator, chats to us about navigating the Aussie festive season without alcohol. Chris was formerly engaged in the banking sector and gave up alcohol a few years back in December right in the midst of the festive season, so he has a few tips or two to share on this timely topic. Chris' path to an alcohol-free lifestyle began with concerns from his family and a realisation that his drinking habits were unsustainable. He reflects on how his people-pleasing tendencies fuelled his reliance on alcohol and how redefining his own expectations around how he socialised and networked was part of his success in sustaining his booze-free goals. We explore the intense societal pressures we all face in Australia that come with social drinking, and delve into ways to navigate the holiday season without waking up hungover. Listen in to get your tips here, including Chris' "emu walk" (love it!), conducting a "friends audit", brainstorming a social event with others, and letting go of the expectations that we place on ourselves to be the party person. In short, this episode is filled with empowering strategies for anyone looking to explore an alcohol-free lifestyle during the festive season and beyond.
Bella's November 6-Week Small Group Challenge: Learn more: https://resources.isabellaferguson.com.au/alcoholfreedomchallenge
MEG
Megan Webb: https://glassfulfilled.com.au
Instagram: @glassfulfilled
Unwined Bookclub: https://www.alcoholfreedom.com.au/unwinedbookclub
Facebook UpsideAF: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1168716054214678
Small group coaching: https://www.elizaparkinson.com/groupcoaching
BELLA
*November 6-Week Small Group Challenge: Learn more: https://resources.isabellaferguson.com.au/alcoholfreedomchallenge*
Isabella Ferguson: https://isabellaferguson.com.au
Instagram: @alcoholandstresswithisabella
Free Healthy Holiday Helper Email Series: https://resources.isabellaferguson.com.au/offers/L4fXEtCb/checkout
Well, today we've got a very timely episode because I'm sitting here with Chris Gimple, who is the Head Client Engagement Officer at the Clean Slate Clinic. He's also a Smart Recovery Facilitator and we've got a really good topic to talk about that a lot of you have been writing in about, which is how the heck do we navigate Aussie festive season with a goal to be alcohol-free or just to minimise, to drink less? It just brings up so many anxieties and fears all the rest of it, so we're going to take a deep dive into this topic. A huge welcome to you, Chris.
Speaker 2:Thank you, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Oh, you're most welcome. I'm just so glad that we've been able to make this happen particularly you know, it's spring before summer rolls around. Chris and I met sort of engaging, I guess listening to each other's podcasts on the Clean Slate Clinics podcast. How long have you been alcohol-free for Chris?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's about a year and a half. Now I don't count. I used to count sort of, you know, at different stages, but yeah, about a year and a half Beautiful.
Speaker 1:Oh, congrats for all of that. That's such a lovely milestone. If you were to say in a couple of sentences, looking back, which is bloody hard, how would you sum up how you got to the point of needing to stop?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the main things for me were my family were worried.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I'm sure we'll probably dive into this, but I'm a people pleaser as well, so what was good for me was that the motivation came from not wanting others to worry. Yeah, and I still knew where I was was not good, that it wasn't sustainable, that I'd been on a merry-go-round for a long time. But, if I'm honest, the catalyst was making sure those I care about and not having to worry about me endlessly. And also, yeah, just yeah. I think well, that's probably the main one. Actually Also not wanting what I had anymore.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I couldn't see the. I always talk about the daffodils and the roses frolicking in the fields. That's not what I was looking for. I just I couldn't see anything better. I could only just see what was in front of me that I didn't want.
Speaker 1:Yeah, god beautifully said. I can relate to that as well, and there's nothing like seeing the disappointment, the fear, the sadness in your loved ones around you. They're pulling their hair out and they just don't know how to help you. That was a big motivator, certainly for me as well. We'll talk a bit about also those people-pleasing tendencies that I can also relate to, because what best than to talk to a couple of people-pleasers when we're tackling the topic of how to socialise and wanting to please others alcohol-free.
Speaker 1:Chris, can I also just ask you how would you then sum up how you got alcohol-free, in a sense of what worked for you? It's often something that listeners like to hear about. You know well what should I read, what should I do? How did he do it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I wish there was this magic playbook, but it is so different for everyone. For me I acknowledged I couldn't do it by myself was number one.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And there's some acceptance that comes with that and you know the shame and the guilt and all the lovely stuff that should be on the labels when you buy these drinks because that's what comes with it. But when you can realise it's actually not a character description of me. It happens way more than people think and talk about because of the sensitivities. We are getting slowly better but a lot to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So when you can actually realise that this is quite a normal process, the science of it is interesting. I always try and remind people in smart recovery groups or people that are just trying to get their head around it. It's like, let's not forget, it's a drug, yeah, and it's very good at either getting you to have it or to think about having it. That's its job, and it's really good at its job. Unfortunately for us.
Speaker 1:You know, when people are trying to drink less, particularly when you're in the early days, you've still got that dissonance around. I know this is bad for me. It doesn't bring out my best qualities, but you can't stop detaching the idea of celebrating hot weather, Aussie summers and barbecues with a beer, a champagne or a cocktail in your hand. It can really bring up a whole lot of feelings around socialising the fears and the anxiety. What do you think are some of the most common challenges that people face?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean. Well, the people pleasing, like we've touched on, is a common denominator, because if we can sit back and think, what do I want, whether it's today, tomorrow or longer-term goals, whatever and it's really hard to get a clear view of that if you're in a drinking pattern, yeah, we can't really look much for more forward than, uh, having the next drink. And is the next one cold enough or am I going to run out? And that's what your brain is busy doing. So it makes sense that we don't have, um, other conflicting morals that we can say or values that we can bring up in our mind. Go, well, hold on.
Speaker 2:If I do do that, yeah, um, then, uh, that's going to kind of go against my fitness goals or my career goals or my family goals. So to even get a balanced view of decision making is pretty tricky. So I think one of the things that can be helpful is to to maybe try and map that out or journal that out. Um, yeah, just just finding some of those things that you what am I actually doing? Here? There's a lot of soul searching that goes on. Whether it's it may not even be when, um, you've stopped drinking for a while, a lot of people are doing it before they can then realise I want to stop.
Speaker 1:So I think being comfortable with being uncomfortable Getting uncomfortable with feeling pretty extremely activated without that safety blanket of alcohol in your hand.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and the workplace and social events that maybe even have a bit of a work dynamic are always tricky because, let's face it, in some workplaces you might be lucky enough that they're all your best friends, but in most cases they're not. So to be in a social setting that we would normally do with loved ones and friends and people who know us well, and then you're asked to replicate that but in the office is scary for anybody, and if it's not scary then, yeah, you might not be as in touch with them. How you're feeling is maybe is what's actually going on. So it's normal for everyone to be a bit anxious about talking to people that don't know well and that may not be people they would normally hang around for long periods of time.
Speaker 1:That's absolutely right and I like to call the style of drinking that you know many of us engaging in that corporate setting almost obligatory drinking because you're there, because you have to be, it's part of the networking expectation, but you'd much rather be somewhere else. So drinking actually helps you to get through in quotes, but you're kind of just wasting the next day for your colleagues. Chris, I'm interested.
Speaker 1:You know, as a people pleaser and maybe nearly ex-people pleaser, you know how and a lot of us would be in this boat. You know where you feel like you or there's this pressure to keep everybody else happy by drinking to the same level that they are all at. You know you're offered a beer and I know people pleasers don't like you know that feeling of disappointment from the other person when you say no. So there's that initial question and why aren't you drinking? Aren't you going to get into it like all of us? Is that something that you used to feel? You didn't want to let people down? I don't know if that was part of the reason why you got stuck into the drinks in those festive moments.
Speaker 2:Oh, 100% yeah, and it's super interesting, I think, for me. What I'm still trying to get better at every day is understanding why people might be responding the way they are or reacting the way they are, and also to remind ourselves like I like the phrase of like we're the stars in our own movie, so when we're not drinking, it is the number one thing we think about. How am I going to get through this? Everyone's going to notice the spotlight's on me, but everybody else's brain is thinking about them and their movie, and it really isn't that much of a bigger deal. It's often just the start, the start of an event.
Speaker 2:If you can get through the start, or if you can set yourself mini goals, like I'll just get through the first half hour and by doing it my way and let me just see how I feel Like give yourself permission to leave early, like that's. I hear that all the time People are like yeah, I just don't stay as long as I used to, because nothing good happens after a while. Like, we know that, and I remember actually one of my tactics. This is when I was still in my drinking days, but social anxiety has always been something I've been up against. In fact, it's the reason I drank so much to self-medicate those feelings and to try and get through.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I would often go to large functions for the bank I was at and I would purposely do an emu parade. That's what we used to call it at school when you'd go pick up rubbish.
Speaker 1:What?
Speaker 2:is that? Well, if you can picture like an emu walking around with its head, all you've got to do really is work the room for half an hour, walk past everyone. They all see that you're there, say hi, keep walking, don't have to really chat for long, and after an hour I would leave out the back door and no one knew that I hadn't stayed and no one knows what time I left.
Speaker 1:None the wiser.
Speaker 2:No. So you know, it can be as simple as that. If it's really one of those things that you think you need to go, we're not saying I get it right, I get you've got to do a bit of strategic chess when you're in corporates and also in non-corporates. Yeah, and some of these things are to show that you do still maybe like your job or you want your job, you know, but there's still some ways that you can navigate it and you don't even have to tell people that you've got a little bit of a game plan, but you can have one yourself and make it work for you.
Speaker 2:Double bluff them Make it fun, have one yourself and make it work for you. Double bluff them, make it fun, like get curious, you know, yeah, I really like it. Something like that can just take the edge off yourself and so that it's not as daunting and it's just an experiment, and go see how many people notice the next day what time you left. I can pretty much guarantee you most people can't remember what time they left.
Speaker 1:No, what time they left. I can pretty much guarantee you most people can't remember what time they left, no, and they're not going to notice if you've been drinking or not, unless you've made an absolute mess of yourself. And you have been drinking.
Speaker 2:I've seen plenty of those too, I've seen plenty of careers. Do you know, it's such a good point, though we think we see these events and drinks as career enhancing and that if you don't do it, you're missing out or you're not the fun one and whatever. But there's plenty of career delimiting that happens as a result of these things as well, and I've just spoken to a lot of people that are like I just really didn't want to say that or do that or whatever.
Speaker 1:That's right, that's right.
Speaker 2:And the most unproductive day of the year would be the day after the work Christmas party, that's for sure. So I actually heard a podcast. I really loved it. It's an oldie but a goodie. It was on Rich Roll's podcast, andy Ramage.
Speaker 2:This guy is ahead of his time. I mean they just discovered him, but he was running his own brokerage. He was, like you know, picture your Wall Street type operator and he had such a great run. He realized that by stopping drinking for a while he had a huge social pressure about why is he doing that? And everyone was asking him and they put him through the wringer for a while. He had a huge social pressure about why is he doing that? And everyone was asking him and they put him through the wringer for a while and after a while they kind of backed off and saw that it was working for him and he just got more confident and he just did it.
Speaker 2:But what's super interesting is he started coming into the office later because he was more productive than everybody else. Anyway that was going out for lunch and drinking. He started getting up earlier, having all this energy, getting fitter. He started studying in the mornings before work. So what's super helpful to remember is sometimes people are working so hard or they think that going to this event is going to give you this 1% competitive edge, like over the people that might be promoted. I remember many times it was all about promoting going up the ladder and stuff, and that's fine. That does drive you at different stages of life. But I can tell you right now that the people that are leaving those things or not getting as involved and staying clear in their mind and making good decisions and effective at work, they're the ones that are going to get ahead at work, they're the ones that are going to get ahead.
Speaker 1:Anxiety is probably the biggest, I guess, the challenge that most people are going to face and the overwhelm that it triggers in your nervous system when you're having to turn up to those events. What would you say? The person who just feels like and I think lots of people might relate to this don't have confidence in their social skills anymore because it has been so closely paired with alcohol throughout all the last 20, 30 years of their life and suddenly that safety blanket's gone and there you are, raw and vulnerable. You know what would you say to that person that knows they've got to connect but just finding it excruciatingly hard?
Speaker 2:Yeah, super tricky and my heart goes out to anyone in this time either has tricky dynamics or it's a triggering time for, like every human being in generally, some way or another, and we see that clean slate when we're talking with people around this time of year. People are already looking at the calendar and they're worried and they're trying to work out. Can I do I get some help now and try and get ahead of the game? Do I wait till next year? If I could talk about myself quickly on it? I started my detox on the 22nd of december 2022. I needed to. I needed to start walking the walk instead of talking the talk to myself, because every other year I was like of course everyone goes, yeah, well, I'll just get through Christmas, then I'll get through New Year's and then I'll go to Australia because that's conveniently three weeks after, so I can get another few weeks of drinking in. So this pattern, for me anyway, had happened many years and it's like. So all I can say is it is doable.
Speaker 2:It's not as scary as we think, although it's made out to believe it's our alcohol brain that doesn't want us to give up yeah, it's the one that tells us it's going to be real hard and that it's going to be, you know, really, really um difficult and it's just not possible. Everyone's going to want a piece of us. That's a lot of the time. I helped, in my own mind, separate that out and say that's just the alcohol talking, yeah it's not it's not true.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, um, I you know the things that had helped me and even, yeah, sure, there's the anxiety is going to come, but that's natural. You're human to get anxious. Yeah, I always like the thinking, but you get nervous or you get anxious because you care about something that's right, so so that's okay. To care about stuff is okay. What is it that I'm wanting to care about? And if we might get triggered and uncomfortable around people that are not the best people for us or there's a history there, or it's just something we have to say hi to, but they're not really our favorite people then we just limit the amount of energy and time we put into it. We don't need to going back to the point.
Speaker 2:We don't need to please them, that's exactly right yeah, turn the people pleaser tendencies around and please yourself and try and learn to put to say what else do I want out of this? Um? So yeah, I mean some of those things just to start thinking about. If it's on people's minds, that's a good thing, because that means that you're planning, that means that you care, that means that you're not going into it blind and then just waking up the next day going oh, I didn't think about that at all. Yeah, so it's okay to look forward a bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I really like the way you flipped it on its head there, because you know where is the moment that people do pause and think about well, how do I like to socialise, who do I like to socialise with? Why am I actually going? If it's bringing up all of these feelings, yeah, and that's what giving up alcohol or merely just drinking less can achieve. Is that opportunity for growth, of really understanding what it is I want to get out of these moments? Also, part of the anxiety that we feel needs to be seen through the lens of the change process. This feeling of exposing ourself to new social situations without our safety blanket is going to bring up these very difficult, anxious feelings. But it's kind of like exposure therapy, don't you think?
Speaker 2:Oh, 100% In the Smart Recovery I just came to today we were talking about that, and it is what's reassuring for some people to know who haven't done some of these things or can't remember them without maybe having the drink with it is. It's not always that hard, it's just the first time you do it without. So if you can just get through it once, then you've made progress. Yeah, the next one's not the next one's going to be easier. And also, like we're training with like I like also to say is retrain the brain. That's what we're, that's what we're trying to do when we maybe are going into these differently. So of course, our brain is going to say this isn't right, this isn't normal, this isn't comfortable, this is not what we do.
Speaker 1:Feels unsafe literally.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because it knows what it knows, and that was everything we did for all the time before. So, yeah, be comfortable with being uncomfortable, and it doesn't stay like that. You just keep moving forward. Once you can tick it off and get it done.
Speaker 1:And I know it's a little bit different to the exposure therapy that you might, you know, use around. What are those common fears that people have? You know, fear of spiders, fear of elevators, but in a sense it is kind of similar fear of socialising without that glass in your hand, exposing yourself to easy, safe, comfortable gatherings at the start, for as short a period as you can manage. Alcohol-free is just providing your brain, your body, your nervous system with evidence that it is safe, that you can do it, that nothing horrible is going to happen, and it just sort of becomes easier over time. Something that I really love to talk about is your mindset, and the sort of mindset that you have when you're socialising with alcohol, versus your mindset entering into a social function alcohol-free. Yeah. How do you approach it now, chris? You know there's something you've been invited to. You know that everyone's going to be pretty boozed up. Where's your mindset at now, a year and a half on?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, uh, well, certainly the first thing that pops into my head is I don't need to be there as any longer than I want to be. So the first thing is and being okay with being able to leave that function whenever you want to leave and need to go when you finish and when you're finished doing what you want to do because that's the biggest change that I've seen in myself, and I've also seen people say is like, yeah, I used to be at an event for I don't know five, six hours or the long lunch. Yeah, I've got it right off the rest of the day. No, that's not true. Now you can go and do the same things, get the same amount of joy out of it and connection, and then leave and not have a headache. I mean, it's almost like hacking the matrix. Sometimes it's pretty cool Once you get used to it.
Speaker 2:Again, what you just said, though I also say the same creating evidence. Today I'm just going to create some evidence for myself. I'm just going to do it. It could be 10 minutes at something that you're popping into because you've got to keep going, but I just wanted to say, hi, just do that and then leave. Yeah, of course you know I was thinking earlier when we were talking about the corporate things and when people peer pressure is a big factor that stops us from a lot of this right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that.
Speaker 2:And that's to be expected and that's normal, because if we can sit there and analyse people a little bit more and their behaviour, nobody wants to be doing. Something that nobody else is doing isn't doing, yep. So therefore I can remember I was the person. I would literally switch to buying rounds for people at the end of the night to make sure they stayed. You know people who were going to leave.
Speaker 2:I'd make sure I would make sure that. No, I wouldn't say have another one and expect them to walk to the bar. I would give it to them. That's how much I wanted people to stay, as long as I wanted to stay drinking.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, so that made it better for me, because then it was more okay. That was a common thing I would do for many years, so we know that it's often a reflection of somebody else and their own thoughts if they don't react in a positive way or a supportive way. In smart recovery, what's interesting? If people are giving up, have given up or thinking about it for a while, you also need to get okay with your same friends, and that dynamic may not always stay that way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's exactly right.
Speaker 2:That's perfectly normal. That's got to change.
Speaker 2:we call it the friends audit in the smart recovery so it's, if you can imagine, especially the people that love a spreadsheet would love this. It's like get them all down. And I'm not, you don't. I'm not saying you cut them all, yeah, but you start analyzing every single family or friendship or work relationship and say, is that good for me or not? Yeah, is that is? Are they supporting me? How crazy is this? We're trying to make our life better, we're trying to feel better, we want to be healthier, we want to live longer and we're being criticized for it. If those people criticize you for more than once, it's generally because they've got their own issues that they're not facing into with alcohol or otherwise, or you just don't need to put as much time into them anymore, because, of course, my best friends were people who loved to drink because that's what I did.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so am I going to expect those same friends to be transformational and on the same journey I'm on when I'm changing my life? Maybe not.
Speaker 1:And I think it's a part of it is letting go. Oh for sure, yeah, there's a whole lot of letting go, and I think that ripples over a few fronts. It's letting go of some friendships that may not support this goal that you are needing to prioritise right now. This goal that you are needing to prioritise right now. You might be letting go of how you socialised with them and maybe creating new ways of socialising with them, but letting go of the version of you when you're a drinker, it's almost there's a bit of grief there, isn't it, did you? Sure, yeah, where they're letting, I mean, we get to let go. You're a drinker it's almost.
Speaker 2:There's a bit of grief there isn't it, did you sure?
Speaker 1:yeah, where they're letting, I mean, we get to let go the hangovers and the fatigue and the regret and the disappointment, the anxiety, which all the good things are let go of. Um, but that letting go of being that you know socializer that had lots of drinks, that kept buying the drinks, that was a version of you socialising, was that hard.
Speaker 2:How did you navigate that? Oh, so hard. And you know it's such a great point because I didn't expect it. I didn't expect to feel grief. I'm not saying somebody, you know there's no. I'm determined one day I'll come up with some sort of playbook of the things to expect so that people can actually plan for it or not.
Speaker 2:feel like this is not normal and I should feel like I'm not doing the not drinking thing or changing my relationship with alcohol. I'm not doing it right, because why on earth would I miss something that I'm trying to accept is bad for me? It's like a conflict in your own head, but it's quite normal and it's really reassuring to know that it's quite normal. Dani Clark, I found her episode Grieving your Past Self in Sobriety. She did that episode highly recommend to anybody and it just I listened to it. I only discovered it a few months ago and that was after a year or so of trying to not think about my past life in any positive way, shape or form, because I'm like I'm trying to change my life. I'm not allowed to miss it or love parts of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:The reality is we had some great times where alcohol was around. But, like you know, that's the truth, yeah, but there's a lot of bad times when alcohol was around, and if I just need to put them side by side, which pile is higher, which one's got the more evidence? And for me, my evidence was swaying into the bad pendulum. So you know, that's what meant you've got to change something. But grieving, grieving, that is quite normal, and if you feel guilty for missing it, you feel like, oh, I'm not allowed to think about alcohol. Well, of course it's going to happen even when you've stopped drinking, because that's all your brain remembers, like it's got to create new evidence of not doing stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's part of the fear in those first early days of being alcohol-free is turning up in a new version of you that's raw, that's vulnerable and who may not be outside having cigarettes and the first one on the dance floor, waking up full of regret. So it's easy for me to see where the scale swings towards.
Speaker 2:absolutely, and we've got just quickly on that, sorry. We've got to work really hard or I did, and from speaking with others, I think it's true for a lot of us You've got to work really hard to bring the bad stuff into your mind. So when it gets to 4 pm on a Friday, right, all your alcohol brain is going to do is throw at you the highlight reel and tell you how good it is. It's time to get back on. Let's go.
Speaker 1:It's a tricky place, that brain.
Speaker 2:Why don't you miss it? And it's up to us to make it a balanced decision and say okay, I hear what you're trying to get me to do and let me just bring forward in my own mind all the shit that came with it, and then I'll make a choice.
Speaker 1:Yes, I like to call it. You referred to it as the alcohol brain, and I do too. It's that sneaky, manipulative part of the brain where the dopamine gets hijacked, and it's always when you're tired and you know it's at the end of the day. But you're right, we have greater. We have more power over it than what we think. So're right, we have greater. We have more power over it than what we think. So, all right. So we've got in terms of tips, get to the smart recovery meeting as an option. Find your buddy that's not drinking or somebody who's not going to drink much or just knows what you're going through.
Speaker 1:At this function, I love doing a big burst of exercise in the morning and knocking back a huge big meal. Lots of protein can help before the function. They're really good ones. I also like when you're getting that nervous energy. I don't feel it at all anymore. But, god, I can remember feeling excruciatingly overwhelmed at social functions, particularly work or even family events, to be honest, because my family not so much anymore, but used to be big guzzlers.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So you just, yes, you felt like the spotlight was on you and there was so much nervous energy floating around that I had to just keep on going for little mini walks, yeah, walking out to the bathroom, breaking it up?
Speaker 2:Yeah, breaking it up.
Speaker 1:Little moments in time. What are some other tips out there that I'm trying to pull out?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, what you touched on there is great like a circuit breaker, like what's going to? Just yeah, you might be sitting there and hearing Uncle Dave tell about how he used to play I don't know hockey in this team and you know it's probably the third time you've heard this story in a week Like if you're sitting there and that's what's happening at a Christmas lunch or something. Yeah, sure, find a reason to go for a walk out to the front yard or go and get on the phone to somebody and just say hi and wish them a Merry Christmas. Break it up.
Speaker 1:That's a good sleeker breaker. Make it happen for you. Yeah, call a mate dial a friend yeah.
Speaker 2:Or get out or leave Like it sounds horrible, but I think, with time and with evidence and confidence, we've often never been good at prioritising ourselves if we are worried about everybody else and how they're going to react, and it's good to remember that you're the one that's going to benefit from the decisions that you make, if they're the ones that you want to make.
Speaker 1:Work out, get an activity in the next day that you need to get up for and enjoy, have your alcohol-free beverage lined up. And answers to all of those frustrating questions that you inevitably get asked around what will you have and why aren't you drinking?
Speaker 2:Yeah, bring your own drinks. Yeah, of course that's a great one. It might sound obvious, but you'll self-cater. Yeah, you can often turn up to things and go and get your drink straight away for what you want it to be, rather than waiting to be asked, because that that makes it harder.
Speaker 2:If someone's out loud in front of people, that's right. All of a sudden I've got to say no and then all of a sudden you feel like the conversation is just going to stop and everyone turns to you like a cowboy walking through, like into the bar or something you know. So like, just take those moments away where you can control it, work the room.
Speaker 1:Work the room.
Speaker 2:Yeah, make it an experiment. You're in charge I love that.
Speaker 1:That's right. It doesn't mean you're in the corner cowering quietly with your glass of water. That's right. I like that, Chris.
Speaker 2:Make it work for you. You do what you need to do and get what you need out of it and get out, get out, get out, watch Netflix. Go do all the other things that you want to do. You're giving yourself time back. Imagine we're in such a busy state all the time. We're always like, oh I wish I had time to do this. Well, you actually can make that happen, that's right.
Speaker 1:I actually like the idea as well that the pain that you're going through is, if you kind of it's pain for gain, the pain that you're going through in the early days, is making it easy for you to do tomorrow. Your nervous system just needs to catch up in knowing that you're doing it, because you're kind of reframing all of those limiting beliefs Can I have fun without a drink? Am I a fun person? Can I fit in? So all of that comes from that exposure therapy that we've been talking about. So the cognitive element and there's also the nervous system element, you know, of losing that safety blanket. But you get there and, chris, I'd love to know when did you finally go? Ah, I can actually do this. And it became easier. Did you notice? Was there kind?
Speaker 2:of that moment, or is it?
Speaker 1:still tricky. Is it still tricky? I don't know.
Speaker 2:Oh, there's still many things I haven't done. Actually, certainly, just saying, recently I still haven't done international travel, which I want to do, of course, but I'll need to have a plan for that.
Speaker 1:Oh, the airport lounge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the lounge. I was the guy that was binging the little buzzer and everyone else was trying to sleep and I was ordering more drinks.
Speaker 1:I was that guy.
Speaker 2:So that's going to be.
Speaker 2:I don't have that evidence yet I've got to create that. So I'm aware of that and I'll be well prepared to say I've not done this before and this is just training my brain again. Yeah, so yeah, there's plenty of those. But yeah, about a month ago two months ago roughly, I don't know it just popped into my head for a long time. I kind of hacked my own brain and tricked my own alcohol brain and said I'm not drinking for the moment. Even for a year and a half, I just kept extending how long it was going for, because if I had have told myself from day one you can never drink again, then my alcohol brain would have been too noisy and too hard for me to ignore and it would have worked really hard to say you can't do this forever, you've got to come back. So I kept it at bay by saying I'm not doing it at the moment and it kept on visiting and asking me when it was coming back into the equation. I kept saying, well, I'm not ready yet. Yeah.
Speaker 1:No, mate, not today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and only a month or two ago, I realized there was no massive event. I was just at home working and I just realized, you know what? I don't want to drink anymore. I'm now choosing From. Today, I'm choosing not to rather than I'm stopping myself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's how long, and it's certainly not always easy and perfect, but just to put in perspective like a year and a half of trying to train my brain, because it had 25 years of being trained Exactly how to do it. So if you love your maths or your stats or your evidence, just remind yourself how long was I doing one thing and how long am I now trying to do something else. And let's put this in perspective why I'm uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:There's a good one that I love saying, which is give not drinking as many days or as many chances as you give or gave drinking.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, relevant to this topic, because all of your social skills have been learnt in those moments when you are introducing alcohol into your life, when you're just learning how to regulate your nervous system, converse, connect, fit in. So, of course, when you take it away, you're going to feel awkward for a very, very long time.
Speaker 2:But it's worth it.
Speaker 1:It is worth it. And let me ask you what are the benefits of being alcohol-free but socialising alcohol-free? What have you learnt? What have you noticed?
Speaker 2:Well, I'm not telling the same story three times or four times so that you can remember what I'm talking about. The connection with people is so much more authentic and satisfying and genuine, and it's actually, for me, anyway, why I need less of it, because the rest was just all dancing around not remembering what you were saying. And yeah, I spent time in the same room as people but I wasn't present, so I'm getting more out of doing less. Yeah, I'm sleeping. I sleep way better. I can't wait to get up in the morning and that is something that I couldn't ever picture coming back when things were at their kind of worst for me and mental health, depression, anxiety. Have been quite open about saying that's a lot of the reason I was self-medicating. Yes, so let's be real, like it's not just how you feel because of your drinks. The drinks is just taking away the pain from other stuff, and when you take the alcohol away, it leaves the other stuff. So you've got to work through it.
Speaker 1:You've got to work on it.
Speaker 2:You've got to be okay with it being not that great to start with. It takes time, but you work through it. And when you work through it, you just can't describe almost how different you feel and empowered you feel about what you're doing. And, yeah, I'm much more efficient with everything that I'm doing and yeah, I'm just more satisfied with less.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all beautifully said, chris. All of that was just I was nodding and thinking same, I can agree, and in fact it reminded me that I had to really just let go of the version that I thought I needed to be when I socialised. You know, I thought that I needed to be a big storyteller because I love big storytellers. I needed to be funny because I love being funny and laughing to other stories. I thought alcohol created that. But also all it really created was somebody very loud and telling uninteresting stories. Actually letting go of that and recognizing that perhaps I am actually a socialiser that's better in smaller groups, more one-on-one, still bloody funny, still appreciate a good story. But there's just I don't know where I got it from the story. I mean, that's what letting go of alcohol is about. It's letting go of the stories we tell ourselves around who we are with it in our lives.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. The day for me that I stopped my relationship with alcohol was when I started the one with myself. That's also how I can describe it, and that's a constant thing. You know, I'm constantly learning, surprising myself in good ways, and I don't think there's any better feelings out there than getting to know and trying to learn again over time to love yourself more than you did.
Speaker 1:And on that note, can I just extend the biggest thank you for coming on to the Not Drinking Today podcast chatting with me about the ins and outs of socialising. You know, because we are a massive drinking culture here in Australia and it's hard to avoid. It's really hard to avoid it when you're trying to make healthy, conscious decisions for yourself. What's in the pipeline for you? Clean Slate Clinic for the end of the year? What's going on your way?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's super exciting for us that we're helping more and more people every week that are asking for help and wanting to know how do I beat this thing? Or just stop for a while. You know one of the key things for Clean Slate, which is you know it's an at-home detox. You don't have to go and stay anywhere, it's done remotely telehealth. You've got a 12-month program all up, your own nurse. You get so much support. We do our own groups that we've talked about, so there's so much that comes with it. Yeah, support we do our own groups that we've talked about, so there's so much that comes with it. The support you're not alone is the key thing we always hear from people. It's just so nice to realize I'm not alone with this thing. That's going on and so, yeah, we're just trying to help more and more people. To do that, it's worth saying if people just want to know where they're at with their current drinking or they're trying to sense check.
Speaker 2:Do I need help? Can I do it on my own? You can go to our website, cleanslatecliniccom. There's a suitability test and it's super easy. There's just a few questions to just realize where the pattern might be at the moment. And yet we don't say to people you can never drink again. It's completely your choice. So we actually just work with you and your goals. You know, we do believe in having a break from it and, like we talked about earlier, train your brain for a while and then just make decisions from there. But, like I said earlier, give yourself a chance to even know what it's like and then make some decisions later. You don't have to give it up forever. You just need to know that. I want to change what I've got.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep, I cannot talk highly enough about all the great work that Clean Slate's doing. So thank you, thank you, and I think that's actually a really good point to end on, because it's a great mindset trick if you're in a social situation where you can just say look, this isn't forever. But I'm leaning into seeing what it's like alcohol-free just tonight and it just takes all that pressure off. Chris, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2:You're welcome. Great to talk.
Speaker 1:You too,
