The Not Drinking Alcohol Today Podcast
Meg and Bella discuss the ups and downs of navigating an alcohol free life in Australia's alcohol centric culture. This highly rated podcast, featuring in Australia's top 100 self improvement podcasts, is a must for those that are trying to drink less alcohol but need some motivation, are curious about sober life or who are sober but are looking for some extra reinforcement. The Not Drinking Alcohol Today pod provides an invaluable resource to keep you motivated and on track today and beyond. Meg and Bella's guests include neuroscientists, quit-lit authors, journalists, health experts, alcohol coaches and everyday people who have struggled with alcohol but have triumphed over it. Our aim is to support and inspire you to reach your goals to drink less or none at all! Meg and Bella are This Naked Mind Certified Coaches (plus nutritionists and counsellors respectively) who live in Sydney and love their alcohol free life.
The Not Drinking Alcohol Today Podcast
Alcohol and Love Addiction With Mel Watkins
*PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS EPISODE CONTAINS REFERENCES TO SUICIDE. PLEASE SKIP THIS EPISODE IF YOU FIND THIS TOPIC TRIGGERING OR UPSETTING*
Mel Watkins, a psychotherapist and founder of Mel Watkins Therapy, shares her deeply personal journey to sobriety, elucidating the powerful links between alcohol, love addiction, and emotional health. Through candid reflections, Mel provides valuable insights on how overcoming dependency reveals deeper issues pertinent to relationships and self-worth.
This episode offers an intimate glimpse into her world, from the chaos of her late twenties to the pandemic that eventually became a catalyst for transformative change. Mel's story is not just about overcoming addiction, but about finding clarity and relief from anxiety, depression and insecure relationships in the sober moments. Her reflections reveal the societal pressures in her hometown of Hobart, Australia, where alcohol often played a central role in seeking acceptance and belonging.
Mel and Bella take a closer look at the relationship between love, addiction, and sobriety. We engage in a heartfelt discussion about the profound effects of alcohol on personal relationships and self-awareness. By addressing personal challenges and fostering authentic connections, we celebrate the life-changing impact of sobriety.
LEARM MORE ABOUT MEL
Insta: https://www.instagram.com/melwatkinstherapy/
Web: https://www.melwatkinstherapy.com/
MEG
Megan Webb: https://glassfulfilled.com.au
Instagram: @glassfulfilled
Unwined Bookclub: https://www.alcoholfreedom.com.au/unwinedbookclub
Facebook UpsideAF: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1168716054214678
Small group coaching: https://www.elizaparkinson.com/groupcoaching
BELLA
Web: https://isabellaferguson.com.au
Insta: @alcoholcounsellorisabella
Bi-Yearly 6-Week Small Group Challenges: Learn more: https://www.isabellaferguson.com.au/feb-2025-challenge
Free Do I Have A Drinking Problem 3 x Video Series: https://resources.isabellaferguson.com.au/offers/JTFFgjJL/checkout
Free HOW DO I STOP DRINKING SO MUCH Masterclass: https://resources.isabellaferguson.com.au/offers/7fvkb3FF/checkout
Online Alcohol Self-Paced Course: ...
Well, today I am very excited to welcome Mel Watkins to the Not Drinking Today podcast. Mel is a psychotherapist and founder of her own practice, mel Watkins Therapy. It's always great to meet people that you interact with and follow on Instagram, and Mel is one of those people. I believe it's at NotMeTheBoos. A huge welcome, mel.
Speaker 2:Hi, thank you. Like you said, I've been following you guys for ages, so I'm so happy I get to finally be on your podcast. So thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:I love these moments Now, these moments Now. We always kind of launch off in a very typical format what's your story around alcohol and how did you get sober? But I might just kick off just to ask the question how long have you been alcohol free?
Speaker 2:So this question I haven't touched alcohol for, I think, over three years now Amazing. But this is where I say my but right. I started my sobriety journey when I was about 28,. Took it seriously in COVID time because there was a lot of times where I was just like I've never thought I'd be sober. I just thought I'd just quit alcohol for a bit and I'll try and do a hundred days and I'll never make it to a hundred days. But I really started taking it seriously in COVID. So then I was like I'm not drinking. I mapped out my whole plan of what I wanted in my life.
Speaker 2:I was at this very transitional period. I was in sales and events and I just wasn't happy anymore. And of course, when you're not happy, that is when you are getting triggered the most. So it was like, if I keep going this way, I'm going to die. So I decided, okay, I'm going to be sober. And I made it to a year. And that's when I had it's Not Me's Booze. I'd started it. I was tracking my journey. Actually, no, I lie, I started it when I wasn't sober because I was just writing about my experience with alcohol. But then I, yeah, did a one-year sober and loved it and then got super cocky and was like I'm never going to drink again and I drank again, yeah. So I slipped up a couple of times and then I got sober and stayed sober.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So for listeners out there, mel is 35, which is gosh. What a lovely opportunity to live just such a lovely chunk of your life, forward-facing, with all that you've learnt, and, can I also say, just to have got through COVID taking the healthy path rather than doing what many of us out there did, which was to kind of spark a whole issue with alcohol in those confined spaces alone. You know, I know our stats went up and up, but, mel gosh, that statement, if I keep going on this path I'm going to die. So it sounded like things got really bad. How bad did it get for you?
Speaker 2:So hard when you think about how bad things get for you, because you just get so used to living in chaos. And even, you know, at 27, I had a breakdown, like a mental breakdown. I was doing things that I shouldn't have been doing. I was drinking every day, doing coke, doing whatever drug anyone gave me really what was available and yet that wasn't enough to get sober. You know, that was my Nana died, who I grew up with, like there was so much shit going on, my partner and I had broken up and I was depressed. I wanted to kill myself, like it was such a, you know, horrific time, but I still didn't think alcohol and drugs were the problem.
Speaker 2:And it wasn't until COVID, and again, it was like this depression that I was always feeling and this anxiety, and that was my normal, though, but I think because I'd done a few stints of sobriety and I was like and you know, when I say stints a month or maybe two months sometimes but I knew that, wait, there is something in this yeah and I like, because in those times when I would go sober, I suddenly didn't have this anxiety and this depression.
Speaker 2:That was my normal and I wasn't going out and making stupid decisions. I wasn't getting with people I shouldn't be getting with, like I wasn't having like these romantic crushes on people that weren't even my type. Everything was just normal. Like everything seemed so calm and I was like there's got to be something in that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because what's the choice? I just get so depressed and then I do kill myself.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, sounds like things got really well complex there for you at that age in your life when there's just so much going on, and thank God for that. You know that inner mentor, that inner voice that, or the inner manager, is what I'm sort of talking about or describing it often now that kept you guiding you back to just the kernel of the idea that maybe this is something to do with alcohol and the drugs, and not to say that alcohol and drugs contributed to all of it. But as for all of us, it's often the case that if you remove that big layer, only then can you start to look a bit deeper. Mel, I guess there's so much there to go on. But if you were to look back now, why do you think you did get into a problematic relationship with alcohol and cocaine? What was going on for you and your alcohol story, your background there? That really were the major contributors to it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you know, growing up in Hobart small town, I mean, alcohol is everywhere in Australia, right, but in a small town there's not much else to do but drink. And also small town everyone knows everything about you. So there is this big pool to just belong and fit in and be the cool person, be part of the popular group and always seeking that validation which is a normal. It's a normal emotion for a lot of us, but I think for me it was like when I drank, I didn't have to worry about being accepted, because I was accepted because everyone else is drinking. You know that classic story your friends are drinking, you're drinking and now suddenly you're cool and funny and the life of the party. I could.
Speaker 2:I was very. I always searched for relationships, so it also gave me those. It turned off my inhibition so I could seek out relationships that made me feel validated and that was what alcohol gave me. I think it gave me the opportunity to seek out people that made me feel important and that just carried on. And I think, as you get older, I didn't have parents that were drinkers like my grandma sorry, like she wasn't a drinker things. I didn't have parents that were drinkers like my grandma sorry like she wasn't a drinker.
Speaker 2:So I never had alcohol in the house. But I very quickly realized if I drank.
Speaker 2:I could get the attention and love that I wanted and that just followed on and got worse the more I was working in industry, where when I you know, when I got in my 20s, I worked in events and hospitality and you're in an industry where you know if you drink you're going to make sales, you're going to have people like you more, you're going to be a life of the party. People want to have a good time with you. So it just became that tool for me. That was my tool for all my success in life, really Success what I thought was success, that's right. Um, success what I thought was success, that's right, uh. So yeah, that's kind of where it all started and it was a real. It was escape as well. I suppose you know when you do struggle dealing with hard emotions. I think we're from a generation where when you're younger you you're not validated in any emotions that you feel, so you're just told to just go down with it. So alcohol helped with that as well. If I was depressed, just drink and I'll be fine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. It sounds as though then that became the self-fulfilling story that alcohol meant love, attention, it meant success at work. Alcohol meant love, attention, it meant success at work. And if you haven't had a foundation, I guess, of really feeling like all of those things can be internally satisfied, like they've got to come from our internal self, then it's pretty alluring, isn't it? Then it's pretty alluring, isn't it? It suddenly, yeah, becomes this anchor that you need in everyday life. When you started thinking you know, maybe I need to have some alcohol-free time under my belt, what did you do? How did you start investigating that?
Speaker 2:to start investigating that. I needed to relate it to something that was important to me. So I suppose I didn't come in it thinking I need to quit alcohol. I came in it and this wasn't. I wasn't even consciously aware that alcohol was a problem, but I really wanted to start a business and I really wanted to be my fittest, be really fit and feel really good about myself. So there was these things that I really wanted in my life and I, you know, I was working this job where I was going out all the time and waking up, feeling like shit and not going to the gym and not doing anything new in my life. It's okay to just do the normal things I know how to do, but I could never achieve the goals that I wanted to achieve or even figure out a business idea right, like I was just always so stuck. And even my relationship now he's my husband, but I was in a relationship with him and I didn't know what I wanted, like he'd always say to me, like sometimes he'd say I just don't know when you're going to leave because I didn't know what I was, what I wanted. So I was always confused.
Speaker 2:And I think I listened to James Schwanwick Am I saying that right? Yeah, yeah, podcast. And he was talking about cause. I was looking for business owners and how people started their business. And then he talked about his sobriety and I was like, oh, maybe that's what I need to do. So it was never. It never came from my life is so bad, it's alcohol. It came from. My life is bad, I need to change it and this is what I want in my life. And then that came to my conscious like, oh, maybe if I quit alcohol I'll figure out what I want.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it also sounds though you had that very strong internal drive that kept questioning the status quo, kept questioning how you were feeling. What's going on in my life? There has to be something more. So it sounds as though there's that inner strength, and thank God for that. Don't you think that we don't just sit there and let life pass us by? And that you did it so young? Where did you get that strength from to be able to buck the trend so young?
Speaker 2:I think I got it from. That's a tough question. I've never been asked that before. The strength I think it was from it does come to a point of being desperate, right? Yes, fear's a good driver. Yeah, yeah it was. I was just sick of it. I was sick of hating myself and when I started writing about it I could just tell how much I hated myself. Yeah, and I was just sick of that. I was like there's got to be something else. Even the job that I was in you know, it's a job I always wanted to be in, in these events and this like kind of glamorous world that people think it is going out to events getting wasted. But my boss was abusive. I was always like in trouble, like, yeah, there was always so much abuse and toxicity and it was just chaotic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I was like there must be like something else, because that's not sustainable.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how can I?
Speaker 2:keep living like this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, looking for a pursuit of something that's more calmer, more content.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And gosh alcohol certainly adds to the chaos, doesn't it Fuel to the fire?
Speaker 2:That's the question, because I feel like the strength was more.
Speaker 2:It was just coming out of being desperate yeah, Though I will actually say my ex-boyfriend died of suicide and that kind of was maybe a push to stay sober because I was like, when somebody dies from that way, so close to you, you start to think, especially when you've had those thoughts in the past, and then you see the effect that it has on everybody. I can do that Like I don't think that, I want to do that. I don't think that's my other option now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can imagine that very sad, devastating life event would have fundamentally, profoundly, have impacted just you. Would have been asking yourself all of the questions how do I? You know all of those big life questions would have come home to roost during that time. Yeah, did you have any role models out there that were sort of leading the way alcohol-free, or were you one of the first?
Speaker 2:Well, I read Naked Mind, yeah, yeah yeah. That was the first quit alcohol book I read and obviously that made a huge impact in my life. So I followed Annie, listened to her podcast, still listen to her podcast. So, yeah, that helped a lot because that was the only thing really out there at that time, that's right. But what about in your friendship circle? Oh no, love my friends, but no, we were all big drinkers.
Speaker 2:I was the biggest drinker, but no one, even my friends. Now I don't really have a lot of sober friends, yeah, yeah, yeah, nobody really. That was a role model.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So that takes a lot of courage in itself to go out there and be one of the first, be one of the trailblazers in your social circle. And you mentioned a year alcohol-free. How did you do it?
Speaker 2:I think having my Instagram keeping me accountable and sharing my journey, and then trying to meet sober people as well, like I really embraced sobriety. I was willing to learn anything. I was also studying counselling, so I had an idea of what direction I wanted to go with this. I was a really big motivator, so I was willing to like read and listen to podcasts and understand why I was drinking, where that was coming from, and then like practice the skills that I'm learning. You have to embrace yourself in this journey, otherwise, if you do it half-assed, you won't get. You just don't get there. You will get there, but it will take time and I didn't have time. I'm not going to waste more years doing this same shit over and over again, so I was very determined to get this right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you're right, it doesn't happen overnight, does it? It is small shifts with consistent effort, and you slowly plot away just to kind of bring about that change you mentioned. You read Annie Grace. Uh, you were listening to podcasts and then, I guess, just putting it into practice Was it just willpower? Just again and again, and again, until you started to feel the gains, and I guess that motivated you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and a lot of things like, I suppose, writing a lot about it. I always separated alcohol from myself, so I wrote a lot of letters on my blog saying dear alcohol, why am I feeling like this again? And I've even got the blog where I was like I'm going to moderate, dear alcohol, I don't think I have a problem with you, I'm going to moderate and I've you know, the other week I drank mindfully, I didn't even get a hangover and I'm like got this and then, like a week later or or I think maybe even two weeks later, I'm like, hey, alcohol, you fucked me over again.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, oh God, I love that method of detaching alcohol and what it does to you, who you become when you drink it from your core self. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I think as well, when you're just going back to you know it would have been hard for you to go out and do this while your friends were still drinking stuff. Yeah, I think as well, when you're just going back to you know it would have been hard for you to go out and do this while your friends were still drinking and stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I had done a lot of shit things to my friends. So they were kind of like, thank fuck, yeah right, she's growing up or she's doing something about it. And they didn't think it was the alcohol. They just thought I was like just a chaotic person who just could never be present or have a proper conversation, or like they.
Speaker 1:So they were glad that I was just trying to do something to start changing my behaviors yes, so a radical change, because it does feel like a radical change to suddenly they know alcohol, to not be that version of yourself when you're out partying, was really accepted by your friends. I love it. Oh, that is fantastic. Well, you know, one of the specialties that you focus on which I'd love to hear more about and your thoughts on, is the connection between love, addiction, infidelity and alcohol. Yeah, what are your thoughts on how they all fit together?
Speaker 2:Oh, I find this so fascinating, absolutely fascinating. So thanks for asking this question, because the correlation between these things is that it's so strong, yet people don't want to talk about it and people ignore it. Because, again, we are living in a society where it not only makes a fantasy for alcohol, it also makes a fantasy for love. I mean, look at the notebook. Yeah, you know the love we can't have, the love we would sacrifice ourselves for, the love. That is so traumatizing that we'll never get over it. And the biggest thing is like this isn't what love is. That's not what love should be like. It shouldn't make you feel anxious. It shouldn't make you feel like you can't live without it, and that's what we are craving. It shouldn't make you feel like you can't live without it, and that's what we are craving and that's what we want. And if we don't have it, and when something feels secure, then we're like oh, I think this is working out yeah, um, why do you think sabotage it?
Speaker 1:we do, and what's your, I guess, ideas around why people, some people, do that?
Speaker 2:so we have love addiction and we have love avoidance. Okay, so love addiction it comes from. We're looking at your childhood and some people can have a bit of both.
Speaker 2:So again, people complex so when your child and your caregiver has abandoned you or makes you feel irrelevant, or maybe you know there's been some neglect or even abuse you can feel like you're abandoned, you're not receiving that love or that secure attachment. And the problem is there, those caregivers sometimes, when they abandon you, they also then give you some breadcrumbs to come back to. So there might be a day where, even though they treat you like crap, there might be a day where they're like oh, you're so special, let's go for an ice cream. And you hold on to that. You're like they're amazing, they've just given you this and that's what you hold on to. And then, as you grow older, you're looking for that person. And it's interesting because for heterosexuals mostly, you know, if you have love addiction and it's the say, it's the mum that has abandoned you, then you will look for love addiction in a woman which is what most likely happens.
Speaker 2:Okay, so it's normally the person who has abandoned you is the one sorry. Is that you will look for that love addiction with. So love addiction doesn't just happen with a loved one, it can happen with like, a friend or a family member.
Speaker 2:I understand it can happen with, like a person that you're in love with, a person that you're romantically involved with Got you, that makes sense. Romantically involved with Got you that makes sense. Love avoidance is when you are enmeshed with your caregiver. So your caregiver is relying on you for things as a child, the parent is relying on the child and you're kind of relying on each other, but more the caregiver. You're kind of enmeshed in together. There is no parent and child. And then as you get older, what you're looking for in relationships you're not looking for that love, equal love. You're looking for a person that needs you. You, they need you. That's what you're looking for in love and what does that attract? So a love avoidance person is going to attract a love addict.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:Yeah, all of that does make sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right. Yeah, so that's what you'll find. A lot of the time A love addict will be with a love avoidance person. Then you start that cycle the love avoidant person.
Speaker 1:then you start that cycle and what did you notice in your own assessment of your own life, how your attachment style in your childhood might have impacted your later life A bit of both.
Speaker 2:So I've grown up with my grandmother and I had feelings of abandonment from my mum and dad. But I would always search for that love from the male. I was always searching. From a young age I was always searching for a boyfriend to look after me, to make me feel validated. It's also why I was prone to always kind of falling into relationships that maybe somebody was having an affair with me because, as a love addict.
Speaker 2:It makes you feel special and important and that you're really. You know they're having this affair with you, so you're the special one.
Speaker 1:I love this topic because I also think, um, it can really explain where we might lean on alcohol to numb out some of the anxieties that we might have with the attachment and the relationship that we've got with our partner. It can also explain why we might feel so anxious when we're socially connecting and relying on alcohol in those contexts, and some of the deeper therapy work that all of us tend to do as therapists in this space is often to look at our attachments and try and untangle them and work them into a secure attachment. Is this something that you've been able to do with yourself on a very personal level, but that you then work with your clients to attempt to achieve?
Speaker 2:Definitely. The thing is, it's hard though, because love addiction and then if you have alcohol, it's very hard to work on the love addiction part.
Speaker 2:You know this when you're drinking right, so it's kind of like it's two different processes but you can also use those kind of examples to help somebody understand why they might be drinking or why they might be prone to cheating. The thing is, if you're love avoidant and you're with somebody because they need you, they're always. Maybe you're that person that comes in as a saviour, you're there to rescue them and something that becomes suffocating and nothing you can do is really helping them and they're kind of becoming very attached to you. Your natural instinct is to start avoiding, yeah, and which will make you want to go out and either cheat or cheat and drink, because we know alcohol is going to remove your inhibitions, giving you the ability to go and cheat. But that is how it correlates.
Speaker 2:And for me, I was always stuck in that cycle because and like I said before, I didn't know if I explained this properly, but I have a bit of a love addiction and love avoidance, and so when I was in these relationships, I could be with somebody and I've chosen somebody that needs me, but then they suddenly get over needy and they're suffocating me, and then I would go out, drink and then try and find somebody that needed me again, and then I'm always searching for that brush and then I'd feel shame about that. So what am I going to do? I'm going to go and drink, so it's like this cycle.
Speaker 1:And it's a cycle that you're repeating again and again and again. You're thinking why am I with that same sort of style of partner? And then why have I got this alcohol problem on the side? That seems to be intimately connected with the whole cycle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. And when we're chasing, like love, addiction and you know, love, avoidance, they're intense feelings, they're intense emotions, exactly the same as alcohol. It's intense, you know that rush, it's like a rush of relief. That's why we get addicted, so it's like we're searching for those fixes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that really does make sense. And you know, it kind of reminds me, then, of that very famous TED talk that everyone talks about, johan Hari, that the opposite or the antidote to addiction is connection and quality connection. And I guess, if we were to interpret and fit that into our conversation, secure connection, secure attachment with somebody. So if you're in a relationship where it just feels anxious, avoidant, you feel abandoned, you're not seen and heard, wow, what a physiological response you're going to have, that anxiety, that nervous system reaction that's going to really fuel your use of alcohol, if that's your coping mechanism to self-soothe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think it doesn't help right, because every movie there's always some complication, there's always something that we're trying to fight. We should be fighting for love, we should be, and like guys, I've had so many toxic relationships like I've been through them all Like, like, I'm just lucky that the guy that I'm with now he was secure, so anything I did, he was just like what are you doing? You know you can heal these attachments. Like I've got a very secure attachment now so you're not stuck with this attachment style and this way of being a love addict or a love avoidant. But you do have to do that self-reflection get rid of the alcohol for starters, because then you will start meeting somebody that is okay.
Speaker 2:Like, if you start to think the thing is with love addiction, you will always think you're below the other person. If you're a love addict, you will think you're below that person. So the person that you go for is always someone like a god or amazing and way better than you. If you're a love avoidant, you will always think you're better than that person, which I've done so many times. So I don't get hurt If I'm better than you, just a little bit better than you. Obviously, my perception, it's less likely I'm going to get rejected, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. What would be the signs that your relationship isn't secure?
Speaker 2:If your relationship isn't secure, then you would be having.
Speaker 2:Well, your body responds you'd be, anxious, you would always be trying to. If it is, you'd be trying to if you're. If it is, you'll be trying to seek validation, like there's a few ways it can happen. Right, you could always feel like you're the lesser person. You always feel like maybe you're doing something wrong. You've always you. You don't look after your needs and you're sacrificing everything for the other person, um, and you're always, you know, just thinking about that person all the time. That's the only thing you're thinking about. You're obsessing about that person. Like they're not healthy things to do we do that with alcohol as well Like we have this fantasy about that Nothing they do can be wrong. And then there's the other side of it. If you're the person that is looking for that person that needs you, then you might find yourself being quite manipulative and, like you said, even if you're not aware of those things, if you're feeling anxious if you're feeling like you've got the ick all the time.
Speaker 1:The ick, it's such a hot phrase at the moment, isn't it the ick?
Speaker 2:I know, yeah, it's such a hot phrase, gen Z right, but if you always want to drink around them another thing, that's what I find with people If they're here and they always want to drink around their partners and that's how they're getting connection there's something wrong. If you want to go and drink without them, then there's something wrong.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if you're texting other people to get validation which you know you shouldn't be texting. There's something wrong. If your relationship is a secret. There's something wrong. If you feel guilty when you're with them, there's something wrong.
Speaker 1:Yeah, another layer of complication here, I guess, is if you met that person and it could be for many of us, I'm not Gen Z, gen Xers then you can be with that person for 20 years or so. You might've met, drinking a lot, and then you're going on your own path to radically untangle yourself from alcohol. That's going to raise a whole lot of connection issues that you would have been masking with alcohol. I guess it doesn't necessarily mean that you're not right for each other and it's unfixable, does it?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But you're right, there is complexity to this. That's why I say get rid of the alcohol before you start making all your decisions. Don't get off this podcast and be like all right, I'm going to break up with my partner. This is what I'm doing. No, get rid of the alcohol first.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because also, people change. Have compassion for yourself, have compassion for the other person, because my partner, my husband, still drinks, but he never had the relationship I had with alcohol. Yeah, and he didn't have the trauma that I went through, like we're very different, he's very secure and we were able to work through it. And you know, and I'm able to communicate how I do feel, because it still happens. I remember talking to my therapist and you know the natural urge for me to do when I feel like something has come up and I feel like he's rejecting me is to suddenly shut everything off and not talk and think about oh well, maybe maybe this isn't like. Just, maybe we aren't good together, maybe we're just friends like defense mode. Yeah, maybe we aren't good together. Maybe we're just friends like defense mode. Yeah, so your things can evolve and change. But I suppose the most important thing you can control is start reflecting on yourself and knowing you know how does this person make you feel yeah, yeah without alcohol.
Speaker 1:I think that's a really good point, because you know if, depending on what your attachment style particularly if it's an anxious attachment style because you might have had a chaotic upbringing where all your needs may not have been met so you're anxious for where you're going to find your love and how to react in those relationships that might feel like home and safe to you because that's what you're used to. I imagine. So, if you've hooked up with somebody that has those elements that might have felt normal for a large patch and until something within you has decided, something has to change. So that starts with some inner work, doesn't it?
Speaker 1:It starts with that looking back into my history. Why have I been created this way? It's not something wrong with me. How do I take those steps to become more secure?
Speaker 2:That's doable Like you said it's doable and it's not your fault that you have felt this way or that you have had issues of love addiction or love avoidance Like this isn't your fault. This is something that has happened to you when you're younger because you, like you said, haven't got your needs met. As a child who shouldn't get their needs met.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's right, let alone then wanting to then embark back with that partner without alcohol. You know, sober sex, that's such a big topic that is raised. You know, that's a whole other podcast episode, mel, that we should probably have you back on to talk about, because all those layers of intimacy with your partner, where alcohol might have helped you get through, suddenly leave you very stark and vulnerable, doesn't it? So you must deal with that a lot, I imagine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely, and I think definitely has to be another podcast, because even with the love addiction, the love avoidance side to it, that affects your intimacy. You know, sometimes people, even if they're in a secure relationship with a secure person, they can't have sex with that person. Yeah, because, like you were saying before, it is so normal to have that chaos in their life and so they're going to try and even they've got this amazing relationship but they're still needing to search for that sexual side of themselves through infidelity. They don't want that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it's another part of addiction.
Speaker 1:A lot of these issues come to the fore, particularly in the ages you know, your mid-40s and late 40s, because that's a real can be a real fork in the road. Mel, you've beautifully undergone a lot of that earlier on, but you'll have your other forks to look forward to, no doubt, as I will as well.
Speaker 2:Especially when you come out of childbirth and, um, your vagina feels like a dog's breakfast. Is that what you're?
Speaker 1:talking about yes, absolutely. That's a whole nother hurdle to navigate. I've got to remember those days. But you've, you've got. You know, in these late 40s you've got the hormonal changes, the health changes, the weight gain. You're giving up alcohol. You're then looking at your partner differently. Intimacy and connection is so fundamental to us as humans, but it changes, mel. Were you lucky enough to have met your partner now after alcohol, or was it during your alcohol phase?
Speaker 2:I was sorry. I met him in a bar so when I was drinking, so when I was 23,. Yeah, definitely was shit-faced. That was a time when I was taking a lot of ecstasy and I remember, yeah, I was off my head most of the time at the start of that relationship. So we've come out of drinking together.
Speaker 1:So you know you were able to have navigated, becoming alcohol free, working on your attachment style and creating what sounds like, you know, a pretty solid foundation for, you know, a partnership that works Well. No wonder you're working in this area.
Speaker 2:I never thought I'd have that. I never thought I'd have that. I'd never thought I'd never seen it role modelled for me. I always thought that I would be in relationships where we cheat. I'd never thought that I would have a stable family of my own. So and if I hadn't given up alcohol? This is why I just fucking love sobriety and I love what you do and sharing that awareness of it, because people don't realise like it is life-changing. You know people who aren't destined to you know, if we look at like patterns in trauma and patterns in family dynamics and stuff, it's like I would not have this life I have now without sobriety. There's no way. There's no way he would have married me. No fucking way he would have married me, yeah. And so like I looked at messages I used to send him. He'd be out for dinner and I would send abusive messages, just acting like he'd already cheated on me or like just totally just cuckoo messages and or never come home like it was just awful the way I like I was the abuser.
Speaker 1:I abused him and other people and he just had that solid, secure benchmark to let that kind of roll off and see you for who you really are yeah, and he broke up with me.
Speaker 2:Oh, and he broke up with you, but he wouldn't. There's some boundaries, yeah, I think the difference with like, if I because I've been abused by people as well I take that on right, oh, it's me, I'm a fuckwit, but he never thought that it was something wrong with him and that is fucking like next level, right, yeah, that's pretty powerful To not take something on like that. Yeah, confidence.
Speaker 1:Yeah, mel, I could talk on this topic with you forever, so I would love to have you come back on just to talk about a few of the nuances that we've spoken about at a later date. But tell us a bit about well, more about what you do, what your services are, where people can find you, mel.
Speaker 2:So I have my own practice. So it's called Mel Watkins Therapy and I don't know, by the time this is out, my Instagram will probably change to Mel Watkins Therapy, because I've grown out of. It's not me, it's booze yeah, I no longer really need to. Yeah, exactly like I don't want to just keep. I will obviously share a lot of stuff about alcohol, but it's just being able to kind of not be all about me and my drinking journey. Um, it's not as interesting now.
Speaker 2:I don't have any slip-ups, so not getting too cocky, but there's no um tea on there, uh, but there's some great info on there to help you stay motivated and get some insights on sobriety. And also I will be going into love addiction a lot more. So we offer counselling for love addiction and we also offer our Alcohol Reset 12 program for people wanting to give up alcohol and they are drinking at nights at home. So it's online and, yeah, it goes for 12 weeks. But I do recommend, if you do feel like you're dealing with love addiction and you also have alcohol addiction, get help for the alcohol first, because it's very hard to make decisions, especially things that involve other people.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:If you're still drinking.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and you just reminded me of that great rule that if you've had quite a significant problem with alcohol, you shouldn't make any large life-changing decisions. Transformative decisions, and that would include your relationship within the first 12 months of being alcohol-free. Transformative decisions, and that would include your relationship within the first 12 months of being alcohol-free. Let the dust settle, Let you navigate who you are, where you are, and take it from there.
Speaker 2:Which I know is hard for all us drinkers that are very impulsive.
Speaker 1:Yes, you know it's very hard to get back Change now. Let's do it. Let's sign up, let's go. No-transcript, let's go. We all want to just go, all in, yeah.
Speaker 2:Trust the process. Take your time with it, yeah.
Speaker 1:Mel, it has been an absolute delight to talk to you. I know this will be a fun and, you know, insightful, thoughtful, thought-provocative episode for our listeners. Thank you very much.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me. It's been great chatting with you. Thank you, Mel.
