The Not Drinking Alcohol Today Podcast
Meg and Bella discuss the ups and downs of navigating an alcohol free life in Australia's alcohol centric culture. This highly rated podcast, featuring in Australia's top 100 self improvement podcasts, is a must for those that are trying to drink less alcohol but need some motivation, are curious about sober life or who are sober but are looking for some extra reinforcement. The Not Drinking Alcohol Today pod provides an invaluable resource to keep you motivated and on track today and beyond. Meg and Bella's guests include neuroscientists, quit-lit authors, journalists, health experts, alcohol coaches and everyday people who have struggled with alcohol but have triumphed over it. Our aim is to support and inspire you to reach your goals to drink less or none at all! Meg and Bella are This Naked Mind Certified Coaches (plus nutritionists and counsellors respectively) who live in Sydney.
The Not Drinking Alcohol Today Podcast
A Masterclass in Hormones, Gut Health and Alcohol With Trish Tucker May
Do you know how much alcohol impacts our gut health, hormones, peri and menopause symptoms, contributes to increased inflammation levels, stress management and drastically reduces our energy levels? Do you want to know what steps you can take to heal your body after drinking? Trish Tucker May joins Bella's Alcohol Revolution 6 Week Program as a guest speaker and shares her insights on the liver’s role in hormonal balance and offers practical strategies for nurturing both gut and liver health. (NOTE: * Q&A at the end omits questions from program participants to protect privacy but includes Trish's brilliant answers so stay tuned.)
This episode is a master class in hormones, gut health and alcohol (and more) and includes:
- Importance of gut health in managing peri and menopause symptoms
- Understanding the liver's role in hormone metabolism
- Practical lifestyle changes to support liver and gut health
- Practical tips for anxiety relief
- Highlights of functional testing for tailored health solutions
- Tips for creating a balanced diet and managing stress
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LEARN MORE ABOUT TRISH
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What I'm really interested in is that correlation between the liver and the gut, because we metabolize our hormones through the liver, and so if we have not done any liver work, then the congested liver can look like aching joints, insomnia, sugar cravings, salt cravings, brain fog.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the De-Stress for Success podcast. Did you know that we inherit our stress response from our parents or carers or generations before? But we can also train our brain to respond to stress differently. It's all about brain health. I'm Isabella Ferguson and I'm here to deliver to you the most up-to-date, evidence-based methodologies on how to find some calm.
Speaker 2:In my early 40s, I bowed out of a 20-year legal career. Decades of running on high anxiety and drinking alcohol to cope had taken its toll on my nervous system and I was burnt out. Now, as a 48-year-old corporate speaker, counsellor, coach, I'll interview the experts, ask the questions you wish you had the time to ask and I'll deliver some practical tips to you. I'm glad you tuned in. Now let's de-stress. Today. I'd love to welcome Trish Takame, who is a functional nutritionist and gut health expert. Trish has also recently written a book called Nourish your Gut for a Positive Menopause, which provides a step-by-step guide to transforming your health. And, of course, as a woman that's turning 50 next year, who's noticed a bit of anxiety, a bit of bloating weight gain, that's me. This book really caught my eye and I know that a lot of our listeners are really going to benefit from all you have to say Trish. So a big welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for having me. I'm 54 and I'm right in the middle of the menopause. Right now, I think anxiety and stress has been my biggest symptoms all in my head, my menopause symptoms, all in which means I just, yeah, overwhelm, low self-esteem, anxiety, stress. I know a lot about that sort of stuff Teenage boys, aging parents living in a foreign country, yeah, and I thought it was a good idea to write a book about the menopause. During the menopause, following a global pandemic Taught me a lot about stress.
Speaker 2:Okay, the first question that I normally ask all of our guests when they come on how do you know when you are feeling stressed and what are your go-to ways of de-stressing Right?
Speaker 1:My number one symptom for being stressed is waking up at 4.30 in the morning with heart palpitations and not being able to get back to sleep. Now that used to be 3am when I used to drink wine I don't drink wine anymore because I had to like it really stopped loving me back, but that you know that disrupted sleep. When I wake up and I just feel like I am, my heart is racing and my mind is racing and it's a really discombobulating feeling. I really don't like it. So I've got quite a few tools in my toolkit for managing the heart palpitations and the racing thoughts, and some of the best things that I found like one of the best things that I found is cold water therapy. So I'm currently living in England and it is still really cold.
Speaker 1:I did my first ice bath with Wim Hof in a community festival with Russell Brand two years ago and I absolutely loved it. Like I tell you, after a minute in an ice bath I felt everything slow down, my thoughts slow down, my breathing slow down and my heart rates slow down, and it was just such a brilliant feeling. So now I have an ice bath in my backyard and this morning when I got in the ice bath. It's three degrees and I can sit in there for a minute and sometimes I'll do a meditation and I can sit in there for a minute and sometimes I'll do a meditation and I can sit in there for up to four minutes. But after a minute I can really feel everything slow down and that is a real deliberate strategy for me to help combat stress and anxiety. I found it really I find it really immediately soothing and really restorative and definitely helps with anxiety.
Speaker 2:Can I ask Trish because I'm fascinated about cold water exposure and in fact I've got somebody lined up to come on the pod to talk about this very topic Does that good feeling of calm, does that last for a long time?
Speaker 1:for you, it can do Like if I, some mornings, and I just feel, you know when you've got that, feeling like you've had 20 coffees, like I don't, I have one coffee a day but I have a decaf right but sometimes even before the coffee I feel like I've had 20 coffees, like my heart's racing, my mind is racing. Yes, what the ice bath does is it sort of compensates, like it's a compensatory relaxation response and it triggers the body's natural fight and flight response and in doing so it it just has this reduction in anxiety symptoms because we're teaching the body to learn how to handle stress more effectively. And I do find that that racing heart for me is a real first thing in the morning, feeling like cortisol is running through the body. And cortisol is designed to keep us awake when we're meant to be awake. It's designed to help us run from the tiger.
Speaker 1:But we don't have the tiger living around the corner anymore. We have the phone, the kids, the mom, the you know all of those demands, clients particularly. And I get really nervous before seeing clients, like I, really like I put so much into my work but I get really quite a bit anxious before seeing clients. So that racing heart for me is that first thing in the morning response. And yeah, getting in the ice bath like it just tends to really work for me and then I don't have that for the rest of the day and it means I do sleep better and I find that I like recovery from like, I love boxing as well and recovery from boxing getting in the ice bath really helps as well.
Speaker 2:Thank you for giving us a bit of an insight there into your morning practice, and it's a little encouragement for me to really delve deeper into cold water exposure. Now, moving on to this topic that your amazing book is all about, can I just ask what are your? You know some of the main symptoms that you see in women that come to you that are sort of common menopausal symptoms.
Speaker 1:Obvious gut symptoms because I'm a gut specialist so I see bloating, ibs, constipation. I do see a lot of symptoms of SIBO, which is a small intestine, bacterial overgrowth or leaky gut or candida. So they're the obvious gut symptoms. But what I'm seeing now like I think there's 55 common menopause symptoms exhaustion, tiredness, having to nap during the day, aching joints, sugar cravings, the head stuff like the brain fog, the overwhelm, the stress, the anxiety, low self-esteem but then the physical symptoms. So we're finding that frozen shoulder or problems with the wrists, the hands, the knees, the hips, the feet, aching joints, that sort of thing.
Speaker 1:Brain fog is really common.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's such a myriad of sleep problems.
Speaker 1:A lot of my clients are not sleeping very well and then consequently they're feeling really tired and then they're reaching for the wrong foods and then they've got sugar cravings, which is sort of feeding into that bad or the unhelpful imbalance in the microbiome and yeah, and all those symptoms sort of feed onto each other because you're so chronically exhausted and not sleeping well and feeling really low and then not moving the body enough, so it's aching joints and that you know that chronic tiredness.
Speaker 1:But what I'm really interested in is that correlation between the liver and the gut, because we metabolize our hormones through the liver, and so if we have not done any liver work, then the congested liver can look like aching joints, insomnia, sugar cravings, salt cravings, brain fog all of those symptoms can be indicative of a sluggish liver, and we metabolize all of our hormones through the liver. So doing the work on the liver is so, so important, and a natural place to start would be have a break from alcohol, have a break from refined sugars. Have a break from refined, heavily processed foods to give the liver a bit. Have a break from refined sugars. Have a break from refined, heavily processed foods to give the liver a bit of a break.
Speaker 2:Thank you for running through all of those symptoms and saying to talk a little bit about what we can do in terms of liver support. I could have been a candidate that ticked all of the boxes, including the frozen shoulder, so I want to talk to you about that offline. But when you're getting all these symptoms, of course life is really busy. You're feeling overwhelmed and it's exhausting and it can be really difficult to really navigate what to do with your diet to support your gut and your liver. Would you mind telling us how would you go about that? What would that look like for an average woman in terms of what they can do to support their liver and their gut more to alleviate those symptoms?
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. I think one of the first things for me is to get tested. I use functional nutrition tests, so I use a Dutch test. I use hormone tests tested. You know, I use functional nutrition tests, so I use a dutch test. I use hormone tests, comprehensive microbiome stool tests, blood tests.
Speaker 1:So when it takes out the guesswork, we know what we're dealing with. And then listing out all the symptoms. So that is a really, really good place to start, even if you're just listening at home to list out all the little niggles like the body whispers a long time before it starts to shout. So start by getting a bit of paper out and starting at the head and working all the way down through the body and write down all the little whispers, all the little niggles. So you might have dry eyes, you might have a scratchy throat, you might have occasional sinus problems, you might have brain fog, you might have a bit of a feeling like a lump in the throat. You might have a thickening of the neck which could be thyroid problems. You might have heart palpitations. You might have bloated, distended stomach, feeling like you're six months pregnant at the end of the day, slowly working your way down through the body, and sometimes it can be little things like aching finger joints, aching hand joints, aching wrists, you know all those sorts of things. It's very interesting because when we do the work, when we do maybe an eight-week gut transformation program, we can look back on all of those symptoms and go, oh wow, I completely forgot I had that. So it can be the subtle things that can give us a few hints as to what's really going on in terms of your thyroid, in terms of your adrenals, in terms of your gut health, in terms of your blood sugar balance and yeah. So write down all of those symptoms and that can also give you motivation to go right.
Speaker 1:I really need to do some work and getting tested is really insightful. So I do do tests in Australia. I use a couple of companies in Australia that do you know food sensitivity tests or microbiome tests or the hormone tests, because then that takes out the guesswork. If we know that you're estrogen dominant and you've got really low testosterone and you're not metabolizing your hormones really well, then we know where to start in terms of nutrition and lifestyle and possibly some supplements that can help to metabolize those hormones better and that can really help drive what we need to do in terms of food, because if we're dealing with candida or leaky gut, those situations differently with food. We might have to go a restrictive, low FODMAP diet for a little bit of time, which is reducing the fructooligosaccharides and the disaccharides in your diet which can really feed a dysbiosis or an overgrowth of bacteria. So getting tested is a very good investment. It is an investment. Some of these functional nutrition tests can be quite an investment but very insightful.
Speaker 1:If you've been struggling with a myriad of symptoms for a very long time, then it's worth taking out the guesswork and with a lot of my clients, I'd always start with having focusing on reducing highly processed foods. So what I mean by highly processed like? There's a lot of processed foods out there, but highly processed they might have a ton of ingredients that you can't pronounce, for example, where their food manufacturers are replacing fats, carbohydrates and proteins with synthetics which are really not food and they are very harmful to the body. They're very inflammatory to the body. So looking at you know, getting label savvy and looking at the ingredients in certain foods, and if you cannot say it and you cannot imagine it as a food in your cupboard, then that's going to be inflammatory and it's going to cause problems to your hormones and your gut health. So that's a good place to start and then also think about changing your relationship with alcohol, because alcohol is very inflammatory and it's very damaging in the perimenopause and the menopause years. I mean, we know that there's no safe usage of alcohol, but we become very sensitive to alcohol and to processed foods and processed sugars in the perimenopause and the menopause to alcohol and to processed foods and processed sugars in the perimenopause and the menopause, because we have that swing in estrogen and testosterone and progesterone. It makes us more sensitive so we can become suddenly allergic to foods that we've been having for quite some time.
Speaker 1:Like I found that that's what happened with me with alcohol. I used to love my wine, but it really stopped loving me back in my perimenopause years. So you know it had to go. It was interrupting my sleep and I just thought, oh goodness, no, I just have to. You know, I have to change a few things in my lifestyle and that was an obvious, obvious, big win, I think, to take alcohol out. And then, you know, look at other highly processed foods. And then, you know, look at other highly processed foods and I think you have to be very savvy now with discerning what is a food that's going to be causing you inflammation, and sometimes it can be things that you really, really, really have loved for a long time but they're no longer really helpful. So if you're heavily reliant on processed wheat and processed dairy, then that can be really a bit problematic and a bit inflammatory at this point in your life. So, yeah, but working with a nutritionist can help you work out what those foods are that are helpful to you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you so much for giving a rundown of all of those bits and pieces. I also noticed at the. I noticed at the start you mentioned that you have decaf coffee. Is going caffeine free something you would recommend for most people or is it just on a case by?
Speaker 1:case basis. I'm quite sensitive to coffee, so I would. I would never have more than one full strength coffee a day. It's very interesting. It is in your genes, for how will you metabolize caffeine and alcohol actually? So it's down to a specific gene and if you've got that gene, you would probably know that fueling on caffeine makes you feel really good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if I have too many coffees, I just feel jittery and wired and frazzled and you know it has that bigger cortisol effect on me, so I'm quite sensitive to it. So you'll probably know in yourself whether you can metabolise caffeine well or not. Like, does it make you jittery and anxious or does it make you feel really amazing and alert, like my husband could have a coffee in the nighttime and not and still sleep. Well, he's probably got the good ability to metabolize caffeine, whereas I don't. It makes me quite sensitive. So, yeah, yeah, does it make you jittery, wired and tired and frazzled, or does it make you feel really good and clear headed and like you could run, you know, 20 miles without a problem? Yeah, got you?
Speaker 1:How does it make you feel is the best question?
Speaker 2:And Trish. I'm really curious about this next question, which is, you know, sometimes when you embark on this kind of relationship with a gut health expert, you can come away with an overwhelming list of supplements and foods that you suddenly need to source and stock up on, and that in itself can be stressful. What would you say? Well, what's in your cupboard and sort of daily routine in terms of must-dos, in terms of foods and supplements that, um, are really just the basics that might make it sort of easier to improve your health and your gut yeah, what a great question.
Speaker 1:Real food yeah. So I do have quite a lot of seeds and good oils in my cupboard, so lots of hemp seed, sunflower seed, pumpkin seed, sesame seed I love my hemp seeds yeah, flax seed, so I use a lot of linseeds or flax seed. I use really good oils, so I have hemp oil, avocado oil, olive oil, coconut oil. They're a good staple. The rest is I don't have a lot of processed grains, but I do love quinoa and probably my one like. And then the rest is lots of fruit and veg and organic if possible, and homegrown even better or locally sourced at the farmer's market Amazing. And then, in terms of supplements, I love adaptogens, so I love ashwagandha, particularly for higher stress.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my B vitamins like I know from my tests that I run quite low on my B vitamins and I'm also prone to being a bit deficient in magnesium and vitamin D, particularly here in the UK because it's crap weather at the moment but once the sun comes out. Like I know again from my tests I've done genetic testing and I do fairly regular full blood panel tests that I know that I'm a little bit. I have a greater need for b12 and I have a greater need for omega-3 and I also have a greater need for vitamin d, so my genetic profile really is Mediterranean. Yes, I have this romantic ideation that I am Spanish descent, even though my family is properly Irish. I think, oh yeah, the Spanish infiltration in Ireland. But I know that I need more omega-3 and B12 and vitamin D. But one of my absolute go-tos and this is particularly for anyone who's struggling with long COVID or is low in energy is CoQ10. So coenzyme Q10.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:So I take a supplement that has a few of those things together. So it's like got ashwagandha, ginseng, coq10, alpha lipoic acid, so it's a really good liver energy complex that I find is really helpful. So they're probably my go-to. And if I find that I'm overly stressed like when I recently come back from Australia and I was a bit jet lagged and I was quite deplete being in Australia sorting my mum's care out and sorting a few things out, and I came back and I was quite deplete being in Australia and sorting my mum's care out and sorting a few things out, and I came back and I was really quite deplete. I could feel my adrenals were. You know, it took me a while to get my sleep pattern back in.
Speaker 1:I really upped the magnesium and the B vitamins and that CoQ10 alpha lipoic acid combination and I noticed the difference, like some supplements you take, and you think, oh, actually I don't notice any difference in taking this and I think, well, what am I taking it for? But the other thing I really really, really love is organic protein powder. So I have my protein powder again. It's got the adaptogen, like the medicinal mushrooms, like cordyceps, lion's mane, reishi, turkey tail yeah, cordyceps. I said that, yeah, it's got a mixture of all of those mushrooms in it and it's an organic protein powder that's derived from sprouted greens and that sort of thing and I find that really good. So when I when I do my boxing in the morning, I really I love having a scoop of that with my other supplements. So that's my go-to and I and that again.
Speaker 1:If I don't, if I don't have that, then I really notice the difference and then and then I get, like I get most of my prebiotics and probiotics mostly from fermented foods like kimchi, sauerkraut, um, water, kefir, kombucha type drinks and that sort of thing, um and so. But occasionally I will take a probiotic. So at the moment I'm taking a probiotic that's a it's it's a biome breathe, it's an activated probiotic that's very good for around hay fever time, because I don't really get hay fever anymore. But with the change of season here and I usually rotate through my probiotics, so I don't stick to one specific brand, I rotate and I get different strains. But I try and get the majority of that from food and like most of my nutrients, like, like I will eat maybe between 70% 85% organic if I can, but that will vary each week, depending on what's available, and I do grow my own veg as well, but not massively because it's still quite cold here. I've got leafy greens growing like chard and kale, but that's about it, and chives in the garden, some herbs.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So the greens are a bit low. So, yeah, get what I can from food, but definitely topping up on some of the supplements.
Speaker 2:Thank you, trish, and we touched on what I'm now understanding is really important when it comes to alleviating your menopausal symptoms through working on your gut and your diet and nutrition is to support your liver as much as possible. So that's a big takeaway for me, which here in this conversation, which I didn't really connect the two, menopause and liver. So, of course, alcohol free or as limited as possible, maybe limit your caffeine intake. What might be, some other say your top three tips that you might do, bearing in mind that I understand that you probably, if you want to take a deep dive, you need to do all your blood tests and things like that to really understand what's going on. But what might be your top three to five tips that women could take away from this conversation that they could do relatively easily?
Speaker 1:Yeah, great, we're looking after the liver, like obvious things like drink plenty of water, get a good night's sleep, because it's when we're you know, I think it's those hours before midnight that are, like I said to my clients, they're like triple points, you know, they're getting a really good, solid sleep routine, because that's when we're repairing and rejuvenating and rebuilding ourselves and that's when the liver gets to do some really important work. And then thinking about also giving your digestive system a rest every now and then, so making sure you're not constantly snacking, having a really good space in between your meals, can be very good for the liver, can be good for the whole of digestive systems. So doing the occasional fasting can be really beneficial, yeah. Or doing a little mini liver cleanse, where you could do maybe a three-day juice cleanse, can be really beneficial. It will definitely get that spring back in your step. And doing that around the change in the seasons so certainly at the end of summer and at the end of winter, maybe around the equinox, maybe thinking about doing a little juice cleanse and a period of fasting can be very beneficial for the immune system, very good for the liver.
Speaker 1:And finally, I would say, have a little bit of a look into techniques that could support the lymphatic system. So you know, the lymphatic system doesn't have a pump like the heart, so the lymphatic system needs gentle movement. So moving your body is really, really important. But thinking about lymphatic massage or dry skin brushing can be very, very beneficial for helping to detoxify the body.
Speaker 1:Because when the lymph glands become sluggish, you know that main route of elimination that involves the liver, the cell, the liver, the lymphatic system, the blood, the small intestine, the large intestine, the colon. That all works well when the lymphatic system is working effectively and you know we have. You know a lot of us are sitting a lot. You know we're sitting lot. You know we're sitting for work, we're sitting driving, we're sitting in front of the couch. So our lymphatic system may not be getting that stimulation that it needs. So and it's, you know, that's hard to get into the day for some people. So dry skin brushing could be a really good way of just supporting that gently supporting that lymphatic system on a daily basis. Yeah, that could be quite easy to incorporate. You know, a couple of minutes before a shower or jump in an ice bath, that's very good for the lymphatic system.
Speaker 2:I love dry skin brushing. I think it, and I always forget to do it, but it's often when I'm on a bit of a health kick that I think, oh, I'm just'm gonna pull it out and, um gosh, it makes your skin so feel so, so good, doesn't it? So, trish, besides from buying your amazing book to really get that step-by-step guide to really, I guess, alleviate your symptoms of menopause with gut support and all of those beautiful recipes that you've got in your book, how can people out there work with you? You just have such a wealth of knowledge around all the symptoms and what we can quite easily do with nutrition to alleviate them. So what's the best way that people can get in touch with you and to do some of your coursework?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so the best way probably is my website, which is trishtuckermaycom. But I do have an eight-week gut transformation program and in that program we do touch on hormones, we do touch on energy and sleep and we focus on nourishing the body, cleansing the body and then restoring and redesigning, restoring balance and possibly even redesigning your life. So it goes quite deep in those eight weeks but there's a lot of energy work in there as well. So we do focus on some chakra cleansing and, you know, some beautiful rebalancing techniques that are easy to do. There's a ton of beautiful recipes and meal plans and shopping lists in that program. There's some beautiful videos and some beautiful meditations. So it's a it's an easy program to do. It's an easy one to start with that really does focus on the hormones and the gut transformation.
Speaker 2:Wonderful. Thank you, trish. And just as a parting question, because I know this is actually a question that a lot of my clients ask. So I work with people who are wanting to give up alcohol, for example, and they're really worried about um well, you know that where their bloods are at. Is that something that? And I know that primarily, you would go through your gp here, but if you really wanted to get a more of a broader spectrum, to delve into hormones and things like that, is that something that you would coordinate from your end?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, absolutely. So. I do work with clients to do private blood work and hormone tests in Australia using a couple of different companies. There also food sensitivities.
Speaker 1:But yeah, the Dutch test is probably the gold standard when it comes to hormone testing. And what that does is it tests all your hormones. It tests your sex hormones. It tests your sex hormones. It also tests your stress hormones, your cortisol response.
Speaker 1:But it shows you how well you're metabolizing your hormones as well, and that's the key that we've got to make these hormones, we've got to use them up for whatever bodily function, whether that's hair, skin and nails, metabolism, body temperature, you know your sex hormones, even cardiovascular health. But we need to metabolise those hormones. And if you're not metabolising those hormones well, that can show up in unwanted hair, in places which are so like facial hair or acne or belly weight that we just can't lose adipose tissue in the belly and the bum body odor when we're not metabolizing our hormones. That's how that shows up. So the Dutch test shows us what your preferred pathway is for metabolizing those hormones and excreting them from the body, and that's a really important part of hormone production and it can you know it can really show where those hormones might be getting stuck and reabsorbed, and reabsorbed into adipose tissue and then that's the belly weight that's really hard to get rid of.
Speaker 1:So Dutch test is very enlightening and for anyone who's considering, you know, going on HRT or anything, it's a very enlightening. And for anyone who's considering, you know, going on HRT or anything, it's a very enlightening test because you know, and I think, one that ideally every woman should do, particularly, you know, as they're navigating the perimenopause, because you know it tells you exactly what's going on in terms of that balance between estrogen and progesterone, what's going on with the testosterone, which is such an important hormone as well. It gives us that get up and go, resilience and motivation. So if we're really low in testosterone, often that can play out in really low mood and really low motivation and it's really interesting and there's a lot that we can do in terms of diet to support our hormones. So it's a very interesting test.
Speaker 2:This discussion has been so incredibly informative for me and I know will resonate a lot with our listeners. Makes me want to go out to all the health food stalls and start buying up with lots of lovely grains and seeds and healthy foods, but also I feel like I need to reach out and get this blood test. I just want to say a huge, huge thank you, Trish, for sharing your knowledge with us.
Speaker 1:Oh, you're so welcome. It's such a pleasure to have a chat. And yeah, look, if you're listening, reach out to me. Feel free to reach out if you've got some questions. I'm really happy to answer. And yeah, if you're listening, reach out to me. Feel free to reach out if you've got some questions. I'm really happy to answer. And yeah, thanks for having me. Thank you, trish Tucker-Mae.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed the content, please don't forget to rate, subscribe or leave a review about this podcast. These three things really help to get this podcast out to people that might need to hear it. You can find me at wwwisabellafergusoncomau. Jump on my website. Check out all the resources I've got there about alcohol, stress and burnout. You can also book in a free introductory call. It's a 30 minute confidential chat. If you are looking for a counselor or a coach to support you to drink less or to manage your stress, I'm always here to chat. If you've got a question, please do not hesitate to reach out. I hope you have a really good day. See you later, thank you.
