The Not Drinking Alcohol Today Podcast
Meg and Bella discuss the ups and downs of navigating an alcohol free life in Australia's alcohol centric culture. This highly rated podcast, featuring in Australia's top 100 self improvement podcasts, is a must for those that are trying to drink less alcohol but need some motivation, are curious about sober life or who are sober but are looking for some extra reinforcement. The Not Drinking Alcohol Today pod provides an invaluable resource to keep you motivated and on track today and beyond. Meg and Bella's guests include neuroscientists, quit-lit authors, journalists, health experts, alcohol coaches and everyday people who have struggled with alcohol but have triumphed over it. Our aim is to support and inspire you to reach your goals to drink less or none at all! Meg and Bella are This Naked Mind Certified Coaches (plus nutritionists and counsellors respectively) who live in Sydney.
The Not Drinking Alcohol Today Podcast
Faye Lawrence: Claim Your Sober Identity (what if your best self exists on the other side of sobriety?)
Faye Lawrence, Psychologist, offers practical guidance for navigating social situations without drinking. She explores how our social identity and connections play a crucial role in sustaining behavior change around alcohol consumption.
• Discover how family experiences and cultural norms shape our relationship with alcohol
• Challenge commonly held beliefs about non-drinkers
• Explore the fear of losing friends or missing out when stopping drinking
• Discover your authentic social preferences without alcohol's influence
• Understand the importance of community in shifting your identity from drinker to non-drinker, and
• Use sobriety as an opportunity for self-discovery and boundary-setting
The only way out is through. You can do this, and connecting with others on the same journey will make all the difference.
FAYE LAWRENCE
https://www.fayelawrence.com.au/
ADHD & Alcohol 8 Week Program: Breaking the Loop - https://www.fayelawrence.com.au/adhd-alcohol-program
MEG
Web: https://www.meganwebb.com.au/
Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/meganwebbcoaching/
Unwined Bookclub: https://www.alcoholfreedom.com.au/unwinedbookclub
ConnectAF group coaching: https://www.elizaparkinson.com/groupcoaching
BELLA
Web: https://isabellaferguson.com.au
Insta: @alcoholcounsellorisabella
Bi-Yearly 6-Week Small Group Challenges: Learn more: https://www.isabellaferguson.com.au/feb-2025-challenge
Free Do I Have A Drinking Problem 3 x Video Series: https://resources.isabellaferguson.com.au/offers/JTFFgjJL/checkout
Free HOW DO I STOP DRINKING SO MUCH Masterclass: https://resources.isabellaferguson.com.au/offers/7fvkb3FF/checkout
Online Alcohol Self-Paced Course: https://resources.isabellaferguson.com.au/offers/fDzcyvWL/checkout...
Today we are all really excited to have Faye Lawrence in our Zoom room for the final week, which makes me sad of our six-week program, but we are going out with a bang. We've been really looking forward to having Faye here. For those that don't know and there wouldn't be many Faye is a therapist specialising in ADHD, alcohol, anxiety, behaviour change. Faye has lived experience. She knows what it's like. On top of all of that, faye is a TEDx speaker, smart Recovery Board member and founder of Untoxicated, and Faye is here to talk to us about socialising alcohol-free. Oh my God, the fear of it.
Speaker 2:Welcome to you, faye, thank you, thank you. Thank you, thanks for having me. Hi everybody, hope you're all going well on this six-week challenge. What I might do, if it's okay with everyone, is sort of power through, because I know we've got a limited amount of time and I'll go on. So if you could just park your questions and then at the end I'd love to hear anything that has resonated or anything that you want to ask, because this is a really, really big one for so many of us the socializing without alcohol, so socializing sober. This is a biggie and I'll whiz through, but why? It's so incredibly important on a number of levels, not just the fear of you know, oh my God, how am I going to do this and is it going to be boring? And all the things that we, you know, tend to be feeling and experiencing at the outset if we're not used to doing it, but also how important that shift in social identity is actually in sustaining any changes that you might want to make.
Speaker 2:So I'll try and get through all the stuff because I'm overprepared, of course. So I'll just quickly touch on. Thanks, bella, for your wonderful introduction there and also just very quickly acknowledging the traditional owners of the land as well, which I completely forgot to do at the outset, my apologies. So I'm a counsellor and a coach. I've got degrees in psychology and post-grad counselling and I've done specialised coach training in ADHD and gray area, drinking, a smart recovery board member and facilitator. I've been sober since 2017. I've got a long.
Speaker 2:I come from a long line of booze hounds on both sides of my family and some of that is like the happy social type of, you know, drinker and some of it is the proper, you know, really significant problems. So that's important to know because that our family experiences really plant the seed about how we perceive alcohol in our lives as adults and the whole thing about how do I socialise, how do I, you know, do life when we may not have a lot of other context outside of our own families. So we think it's quote unquote normal and you know, obviously our cultures are very heavy with booze as well. So I had a lot of, you know, narrative around non-drinkers being boring, square, untrustworthy, not a lot of fun, quick, let's wait till the vicarickers left and we can all get absolutely hammered.
Speaker 2:When someone sober was at the thing, you know, I literally would not. We were just talking about online dating. I wouldn't date someone who wasn't a drinker, for example, like, and I probably wouldn't be friends with them. Um, because that's where my you. It was such a big part of my life so every time I would think about going. You know, I need to change my relationship with alcohol. It was such a big thing, because I was like well, who am I without?
Speaker 1:it.
Speaker 2:How do I do you know it was such a huge part of my identity? How do I do you know it was such a huge part of my identity so I didn't know it would have been a complete leap into the unknown. So this was my old social life, just to give you a bit of an idea. And this here on the right was me when I actually worked in wine. So that was one of the jobs that I had was fine. My marketing, so it was very much, you know, really was a huge part of my social life, my work, how you did business, you know you name it alcohol was very front and centre for me. So the thought of actually giving up was flummoxing to me. So I don't know how, you know where you guys are on that front, but it was unfathomable for me from a family perspective, from a cultural perspective, from a social life perspective. I was like but everybody around me drinks because birds with feathers flock together, don't we? We all congregate. So then when I needed to stop drinking, because there was really you know that was the writing was on the wall, things were getting out of hand. I was like what, what does this look like then? Because what am I going to do? Stay home every weekend, you know I'm a social person, but all my friends, as I've just mentioned, are all big boozers. So what does that mean for me now? Because the last thing I want is to be stuck at home bored. If I'm going to do that, I might as well be out back out on the turps, and I didn't want to do that anymore because I'd given that a red hot go for a good 30 years solid and, you know, realised well, it's taken quite a long time for me to um finally, you know, get the memo that it it wasn't really working. I couldn't really make this moderation lot work um, I'm a bit of a slow learner, but I got there eventually. So all the weekend activities that I engaged in, all the connections that I had, were all around partying, essentially, or going out to dinners, having boozy lunches, all of that sort of thing. So this is when I started, untoxicated. So unfortunately it is now defunct because it was volunteer driven.
Speaker 2:We were the largest um alcohol-free social community. We had um almost 10 000 members. We're in Brisbane, sydney and Melbourne. So we used to hold events um like just catch-ups or meet-up, really all sorts of different things, and the reason that I started that was because, basically, I couldn't find other people who, you know, wanted to socialize without booze. So I ended up just creating something and starting a meet-up group and it just sort of spiraled from there.
Speaker 2:But the really interesting thing about that was that there were a lot of people out there, unbeknownst to me, that actually also wanted to socialise without alcohol, and that might be for a hot minute, it might be for a night, or sometimes they were longer term sober to being a really broad spectrum of people from all walks of life, not you know what we typically think of as the problem drinker. They were just like us and they wanted to socialise without alcohol for whatever reason whether that was fitness, health, you know and they were just having a break. Well, they had a problem, you know. So we didn't ask. Stories would inevitably come out, but some people also just didn't like drinking. So that was where I was starting to challenge some of these really strongly held perceptions that I'd had for a long time about, you know, people being boring and also that people who didn't drink had a problem because I was like oh, there's actually loads of people who didn't drink had a problem, because I was like, oh, there's actually loads of people who don't drink that don't have a problem, they just don't like it, or it doesn't work for them, or and I it was just it threw me. It really threw me, because prior to this, I'd always thought, well, the only reason someone wouldn't drink would be because they couldn't Like. What other reason could there possibly be? I know it sounds stupid now, but that's how. So we can see why, though, this is such a huge thing, because alcohol, this is not. These stats are not from a huge time ago. I think they're from a couple of years ago, 2022.
Speaker 2:Alcohol is the only drug where approval of regular use is higher than disapproval. So, given we are social beings and it's important for us to stay connected to our people, when we are attracting disapproval from the people around us, as sometimes can be the case when we stop drinking, that can threaten our choices. Because, you know, interestingly with, alcohol is classed as a drug and it actually causes three times more harm than all illicit drugs combined, which people you know don't know, but it's interesting then, conversely, that it's the only drug where the approval is higher than the disapproval. So, if you think about things like you know how we feel about smoking or how we feel about other drugs. We can be quite judgmental about those things and like, well, it's a no-brainer, but yeah, with alcohol, other will chime in and, you know, make the snide comments sometimes, as I'm sure you may be, you know, have concerns about or have experienced, but the but here's the thing the non-drinkers and the heavy drinkers experience the peer pressure to drink and that leads to either staying home, social isolation or giving in.
Speaker 2:So there's got to be another way. There's got to be another way, and what we did with Untoxicated proved that there is. And it's really, really important, because community and connection is such a big part of behavior change for all of us. Whether it's park run, whether it's joining jenny craig, whether it's joining the gym, whether it's I don't know going latin dancing, whatever you're joining a french class, we need to have those connections to be able to start um, having in the game, having more skin in the game, to adopt the new behaviours, and that is part of the scaffolding for us. And then we create those relationships as well. It's not just the fun, it's also the support, it's the shared interests. The shared interests, it's all of the what makes us human, really the human connection.
Speaker 2:So these are a lot of the commonly held beliefs that I thought were true and I didn't even question them for my entire adult life. And you know, I'm putting these up here because they're commonly what I hear from clients as well. I'm not here to say yes or no. As to whether these things are true or not, that's up for you to to find out for for yourself. But it is worth asking yourself whether they are true or not and getting curious about that, because there were a lot of things that I thought were absolutely, definitively true and I later found through my own experience that they really weren't. It's just the lens that I had been looking through.
Speaker 2:So you know, people will think I'm boring, is such a big one, or people won't like me or they'll be disappointed. I thought I had an obligation to be a certain way that people would expect that. Um, people might think I have a drinking problem. If I don't drink, for example, um, it won't be fun, I'll feel left out or I won't fit in. That's so, so common. Given the human need to belong, I'll make other people feel uncomfortable, so I'll throw myself under a bus instead and do something that I don't want to do.
Speaker 2:I feel awkward, have social anxiety. We'll touch on this one in a moment, because this is really. I feel awkward, have social anxiety. We'll touch on this one in a moment, because this is really, really important. I won't know what to say when people ask why I'm not drinking. This is also a huge one. I'm sure you've probably touched on this over the six weeks because it is so massive. I'll lose all my friends. Such a huge fear this one, and I feel like I'm missing out. Of course, this is another biggie. So how do we socialize without booze? Well, I don't have enough time to go into every single scenario here, but what I would say is get you know, really get curious, don't expect to have a bad time.
Speaker 2:When it finally stuck, for me, the big difference was I went I'm going to treat this like a bit of an experiment, because I don't actually know what it is like to properly adult with an openness and properly adult without alcohol sorry with an openness, rather than white knuckling it and going this is shit, this is shit, this is shit, which is any time. I'd had a little bit of a break before that's exactly the mindset that I'd had was like oh God, there's no point even doing it, it's going to be awful. Oh, this is so bad and I hadn't really had breaks at all. Not anything significant, I think. I tried for a pass like three times and I'd never managed to do a month, so really leaning into the discomfort of like. I don't necessarily know what it's going to be like to socialise without booze and let's see, let's see. No, thank you is a complete answer. You don't owe anyone an explanation.
Speaker 2:But also don't assume that when they, if someone does ask, I used to think of it a bit like if someone was a vegan and I would ask them oh right, just from a sense of curiosity, it doesn't mean that I was judging and we automatically perceive it as though someone's making a judgment if they ask why we're not drinking. It's not always the case. Sometimes it might be because they like the idea of this and they're like oh, I'd love to be able to do this, how do you do it? Two-hour roll this. And they're like oh, I'd love to be able to do this, how do you do it? Uh, two hour roll. I had a two hour roll, which was two hours, and then get out of there, especially in the beginning, especially if it was something that I was like oh, I know I'm not loving the thought of going to this, but it's so-and-so's birthday, so you know, I kind of got to make the effort. Two-hour rule People start getting drunk by then anyway, so just slide on out.
Speaker 2:Don't even bother saying goodbye if you don't feel like you want to Try the alcohol-free products. A lot of the time people aren't even going to know you're not drinking. They're not. They really won't. If you've got a drink at a bar with a piece of lemon in it or a piece of lime or an alcohol-free cocktail, no one's even going to know. Even if it's like a lemon-lime and bitters or a lime and soda or something, this one's a no-brainer. But switching up the night times for the daytime, so doing the brunch instead of the dinners, what I did personally was I tried loads of different things to see because I was like I don't know if I'm gonna like it. So I still did occasionally do the bars. Very occasionally I do the dinners and I quickly gauge whether it was a no for me or not, or whether it was too unmanageable for me.
Speaker 2:If in doubt, just exit. If it gets to that if you feel like the cravings are too much, you know you can exit. Do something different, what's something you've always wanted to do. Okay, you know, go to a roller disco, go ice skating, go and do some sober karaoke. These are all things I've done. By the way, Know that it's okay to be uncomfortable. You're going to feel uncomfortable. You're retraining your brain. You're going to feel, sometimes, some level of discomfort. It's okay, it'll pass almost always and really notice what's different as well.
Speaker 2:Um, and just get used to print, like when you go to interviews for jobs. It's practice, isn't it? Because you're not used to putting yourself in those situations and so just keep on. Or dating is another one like, but you keep putting yourself in the situation because it's worth it in the end. And it is taking a leap into the unknown sometimes.
Speaker 2:But if you think about a lot of things we do in life, it often is having kids None of us knew what that was going to be like before we did it. Moving to a new area, getting into a new relationship. All of these things do take this sort of leap of faith into the unknown, like oh, I don't know what this is going to be like. So just get curious and see, just like you would in those other types of scenarios, um, types of scenarios, oh. But also you're in good company, because so many people now are choosing to drink a lot less or nothing at all, so it's really not this whole big thing like it used to be. Well, oh, you're not drinking the vicar, the vicar's here.
Speaker 2:Um, you know a lot of people are into the biohacking, the cold showers, and you know they're really into the, the um, optimal health and understanding, like about the brain and, um, a little bit about the neuroscience and the protective factors as well over time. So it's, you know, a lot of people are moving towards a reduction in alcohol. I feel in the same way as happened with smoking, but let's see, let's see what happens. I'm not anti-alcohol, by the way, which probably sounds ridiculous. I do believe people should be able to choose, um, what they do with their own bodies, but it's about informed choice, and that's been the missing pieces in, in my view, and use this time to learn about yourself.
Speaker 2:What I frequently hear and what I experienced was um, we're, we can find we're a lot more introverted than we thought, and we can panic, we can go oh, my god, I'm so boring now. Well, maybe you're just, maybe you're just an introvert. Maybe you're not the type of person that likes the environments that you've been using the alcohol to put yourself in. I've, or I find sometimes, with clients as well, it will be. They're drinking to force themselves to go out on a friday night when they're actually exhausted from a week off of work and you know that they feel the expectation is there.
Speaker 2:So when you take the alcohol out you can really start to see like, oh, actually I really don't like noisy environments, oh God, I know I actually don't like big groups, I prefer smaller catch-ups, just a couple of friends, or, you know, you can start to get a sense of what's really you and not the alcohol, and that can change quite a bit really you and not the alcohol, and that can change quite a bit. I've put this, I've put this image up about the introvert versus social anxiety, because the research does bear out there is a big link between social anxiety and alcohol use. So it is in the mix for a lot of people that they are using the alcohol to um quell social anxiety, um to, you know, be able to um put themselves into that some of those social settings that might be unfamiliar or uncomfortable for them. And sometimes we don't know which is which, whether it is because of the social, because it is social anxiety, or whether it is just because we actually don't really like those sorts of environments.
Speaker 2:They're too overstimulating. I've got ADHD. I've got issues with noise. I didn't realise any of this until I stopped drinking in 2017, and then I was suddenly like, oh, I actually hate having to shout in a pub or in a loud venue or you know, just all the all the noise. So, um, yeah, use it as an opportunity to tune into you and what you actually feel and enjoy. Um, and what have you always wanted to try? But you've been scared too scared to, you know, because often the alcohol is keeping us small to some degree. You know, I always used to want to go to Toastmasters because I was petrified of public speaking. I still don't like it and, um, every time, I'd just have a glass of wine when I got home and then swiftly followed by at least the rest of the bottle, but it was because I didn't want to put myself out there. So I was always just using the alcohol as a way to avoid doing these things until, you know, it got to the point where I really needed to address the alcohol. That was the thing that became, became the issue. So, what have you always wanted to try? But you've been too scared to that is going to hold a lot, for you lean into that.
Speaker 2:And then also this sort of illusion that I think a lot of us hold about the connection with alcohol that it brings us closer. Again, question, test it, see, because often it actually keeps us further apart. I used to think this you'd have these big DNMs and they'd go on for hours and it would be you know, wow, we're all. And then, you know, I can't remember who can remember what we said, don't even really know that person. So it's a way to keep people at a distance actually in many cases. So just get curious. You know, not in all cases, but sometimes it can actually be a way to have the illusion of closeness without the real closeness. Um, so, just yeah, have a little bit of a look at that.
Speaker 2:And I wanted to quickly touch on this social identity piece as well, because this is so, so important. So we're wired for connection, you know, and up until fairly recently, in human, you know, human history. Uh, in the terms of human history, we were lived in community, we lived in tribes, and that's what we're wired for, that's what our brains are wired for. We become really stressed and it has a really adverse effect on us when we are not in community with others, when we don't have the social connections. But, as we know, there has been an erosion of that over time and people have become more isolated. Our mental health has suffered, you know.
Speaker 2:But the research shows that our brains struggle because our brains are still back in the caveman times. They don't know that we're here, living in a city, or we're living in a, you know, driving around in cars and all that it's still operating back in the tribal days. So we um perceive the world as more dangerous, effortful and exhausting because we've got a lot of stimulation going on, we've got a lot of information coming in and the human connection helps protect against that. When we don't have it, it is, um, yeah, it gives us a much higher cognitive and physiological load and that actually results, the research shows, into seeking out this other form of energy regulation, like sugar, like alcohol and these other self-soothing substances, to compensate for the lack of connection number one and the energy that we're expending because we don't have the connection in the first place. So what we know and this is basically from there's a lot of research that comes out of uq, about university of queensland.
Speaker 2:Sorry about social identity and the importance of that in um, maintaining behavior change, um, I won't go too much into the academics of it all, but just to let you know you're that writing's a little bit smaller so you might not be able to see it but what the research shows across many, many papers is that people that have friends who don't drink we can't be what we can't see often people that have friends that don't drink are much more likely to be able to sustain a lifestyle that is alcohol free. And people who've got interests and hobbies that don't revolve around alcohol are also more likely to be able to do that. Because what you can see from these, this social identity change graph here, is that over time, so when people are in active use of any particular type of substance, they're identifying more strongly, like I was when I worked in wine, like I was in all those photos with the using group because I didn't know anything else. So I identified with other people who were heavy drinkers like me and then early recovery for me. Whether you might not like that term or identify with that term might not resonate for you, but this is just taken off a research paper so you can start to see that it's balancing out the identity.
Speaker 2:The person's identity is like in the middle um image there, that their identity is starting to shift slightly. It's between the using group and the non-using group. So this is where they have been going to in groups like this, basically with other people that are trying to make the same changes as them, and then when they are in stable recovery, so that is when they have been able to sustain the changes they want to make in their substance use, that is when they identify more strongly with the non-using groups. So, in other words, their identity has actually shifted to be more aligned with other people who now do not drink or engage in the behaviours that they are themselves wanting to change. So it's not just something that we need because we are social animals. It's actually a very critical part of us being able to make these changes that we want to do.
Speaker 2:This community and connection piece cannot be underestimated that being around like-minded people, around people who are on the same path, around others where you can say, hey, I'm really struggling today, or hey, this is really difficult, or yay, go me, I've done two weeks, or whatever it is is. Do not underestimate the power of that. That is why that was the sweet spot for Untoxicated, and it's so critical to be able to shift from everything about your identity being related to the alcohol well, as it was for me maybe not so heavily for you, but it certainly was for me to then. Now, absolutely seven years later. Well, how long has it been? 2017? What are we now? 2025?
Speaker 1:Seven years yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, to now, like I don't even think about it. It's, I mean, and that was absolutely unfathomable for me back in, before I stopped, and probably for the first year um, because I was still in that sort of, you know, shifting. I still held the same friends, but, but I made new friends and with the friends that I did have, I shifted those activities to the morning things, because I didn't trust, if I went out with them in the evenings, that I wouldn't, you know, go. Yeah, well, as I call it, the buckets will kick in. Pull it, the buckets would kick in.
Speaker 2:Um, so, gradually, over time, my social identity started to shift. I started to see myself as a non-drinker, and that is something I never thought in a million years that would ever happen. Um, and, yeah, the same happened with the smoking as well. So it is, it is what does eventually just naturally happen over time. But a really critical part for you is staying connected with other people who are on the same path and you can, um, yeah, all be on the journey together and share the experience. That's, it's a beautiful thing. It's a beautiful thing. It's a beautiful thing. So, over to you. That's enough from me. Yeah, I suppose I'm interested in, like what your fears are about, what being alcohol free might say about your identity, either to yourself or to other people, and any impacts you worry about or have experienced in your own relationships.
Speaker 1:Thanks, faye. Let's hand it over. Does anybody here want to have a go at answering one of those questions or any other questions of Faye and Faye? Would you mind? Just if you could stop screen sharing? Then everyone can come and have a look at each other a bit more. That would be lovely. That's awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, great question, great question, Faye, it depends really. I think for Friday nights were the longest, I would say. For me that took six to 12 months, honestly, because it was so ingrained that Friday night was the kick-on. Yeah, after the week, because I used to work in corporate and you know that was what you did. So I recognized that I needed to really unlearn something I've been doing for a long, long time and that wasn't going to be easy. The rest of the time wasn't anywhere near as bad, but the Fridays and things like public holidays as well yeah, there was some of those. The associations were so, so strong that it took longer. But I had my first overseas holiday in 2023 for years since I'd stopped drinking and I got a real one of the times on the trip, so I'd been, like six years, I think, sober at that point and, just out of the blue, got off because it was a holiday.
Speaker 1:Bay, I've just got this great question here from you and it was actually quite similar to one that I was going to ask you. Yeah, how did you? Did you find your personality changed a little? Yeah, and how did you adapt to that new version of you? How did your friends accept who you were without drinking and what I was actually going to say? And it followed on from F Faye and your comment, faye, that it is an opportunity to learn about yourself, this alcohol-free thing, because suddenly you ask yourself do I actually want to go there or do I choose to go there? And then there's all those new boundaries. Do I like that person? You know all of those things that are big time adulting that perhaps we don't have a handle on when we're constantly boozy. But, yeah, did you notice that it opened up new aspects of your personality you could lean into?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it did in some ways. I think in the beginning it's a bit like I always say it's a bit like when you have kids, you're desperate to prove nothing's going to change, you know, you're like I'm still going to go back breaking around the world with my kid and of course you have a child and you're like, oh God, no, I can't get out my dressing gown. What was I thinking? So what I found was, yeah, I think in the beginning I was really trying to like not be any different, um, because it was still sort of feeling like I had to prove something in some ways and because I didn't have any terms of reference. I had no, nothing to draw off to kind of know what was this this was going to be like. So it was. It was quite terrifying actually, in many respects, um, terrifying and exciting at the same time, because I was still like, oh, let's see.
Speaker 2:But uh, yeah, I definitely noticed I was more drained by socializing, which is why the two-hour rule was good and I still do get, and that's as well. I realize now part of the neurodivergence for me, um, yeah, is much more sensitive to sort of sensory things, like I mentioned, with the noise and with the light and all of that sort of stuff as well, plus getting you know 51. So you know, you start getting more tired, yeah. But I think, yeah, my personality definitely changed. I think that I used to be the life and soul and I care a lot less now about what people think yeah.
Speaker 2:I care a lot less about trying to impress other people and more about whether I actually like them or not, which sounds egotistical. It's not like, oh God, you better live up to my standards. It's not like that. I'm not going to be everyone's cup of tea and they're not going to be my cup of tea necessarily either, and that's okay. We're not supposed to be be.
Speaker 2:So I think it ties in nicely for me. It tied in nicely because I was 44 when I gave up with this whole thing of um, the boundaries, the learning, you know, and I think, as women like, especially once we start to, you know, the hormones start kicking in or shifting. Should I say that it is the age where we start to go look, I'm just, I'm not, I don't want to do these certain parts of my life anymore. I'm not doing it. No, I'm not cooking you dinner. No, I'm not coming to this family thing that I don't want to go to. I went to something last week. You know. I'm not coming to this family thing that I don't want to go to. I went to something last week, you know, like all of the things we start to question that we've just gone along with because of our conditioning, and I think this is part of it as well, yeah.
Speaker 2:And we can start to carve out like what, what is it that we actually want, before you know, with the clock's ticking, it's it. So, yeah, leader, yeah, is it leader or litter leader?
Speaker 1:leader leader.
Speaker 2:yes, hiding the bottle. So a lot of people do um go into the, the heart, the um secret drinking. Yep, 100%. People I find with my clients are either the secret drinkers at home or they are the go out and you know. So the people that drink at home, or certainly the drink secretly, often don't drink a lot necessarily around other people, but it's that home and I think this is the toll of the shame. Yeah, it's brutal. I found it very lonely. Yeah, you can't talk about it and you've got kids at home and people will think judge you so much. It was tricky. Yep, absolutely. And I can't tell you, leda, how freeing it is to not have to do that anymore. Honestly.
Speaker 2:I totally get it, I totally get it, I totally get it yeah, and, and it can be so hard in the early days to think that it can ever be any different for a period of time. I mean it's um, especially when we've been used to it for so long, you know. So we've been used to sort of hiding the magnitude of things behind closed doors or just laughing it off like, oh, it was just a silly incident or something. But there's a real toll, you know, there really is. And the portal of growth I always say, say, is when you stop, because then this whole other oh you mean I'm allowed to not engage with this toxic dickhead, or I'm allowed to say no to this, or I'm allowed to not go to the thing oh, I didn't even realise that was an option before, you know or I'm allowed to.
Speaker 2:I can start to like myself a bit, I can start to trust myself. I can. I mean, don't do what I did, which is give up and then go on national TV and tell everybody but the unburdening yourself in safe spaces is where shame dies. Yeah, and you, suddenly you know spaces like this, and you because it's too heavy to carry by yourself. Honestly, it's too heavy when I was there, and I because I did a bit of AA at the beginning.
Speaker 2:I just did everything. I just did absolutely everything I could get my hands on. I was like, right, I'm gonna immerse myself in everything and just see what works. And AA wasn't for me longer term, but it works for some people. There's groups like this, there's you know, there's a lot out there of alcohol counselling there's, there's all sorts um. But when you can share with other people and you've got the these parts of yourself that you know, your trauma, these complicated histories that many of us have got, and you can put it out there and the world doesn't come crumbling down and other people can identify and you can identify with their stories, and oh, there's so much power in that thank you so much for sharing and beautifully addressed as well.
Speaker 1:Thank you, faye. Does anybody anybody else? We've got a few minutes. Would anyone else like to make a comment or have a question for Faye? Are there any groups around like Untoxicated that you can think of? I mean, I know that Smart Recovery I always will refer to as a group if you wanted to get into a bit of a group therapy style.
Speaker 2:It's difficult for the social side, yeah, but honestly I would just do things like get onto Meetup, which is meetupcom, and go and find things Like there is everything under the sun that you can think of there. There's dancing, there's photography, there's a lot of. It is next to nothing to participate in Hiking. There's this there of there. There's dancing, there's photography, there's a lot of. It is next to nothing to participate in Hiking.
Speaker 1:there's this, there's that there's everything.
Speaker 2:That's a terrific idea. That's how.
Speaker 1:I started Untoxicated. We have rolled round to six, no seven o'clock, so I will sadly bring this beautiful session to a close. Just want to say or extend a big, heartfelt thank you, faye, for just bringing your energy, your knowledge, your enthusiasm, your evidence-based research there about identity. I love all of that so much. Thank you.
Speaker 2:My absolute pleasure. I hope I didn't power through it too quickly and you know you still were able to glean something useful there to take away. Ladies, thank you for coming along. I appreciate it. And just look, you can. Honestly, I'm not trying to select you, I promise, but I just know the big difference. Like you've spoken about, I had a long history of childhood trauma. I've got a huge amount of adverse childhood experiences, complex PTSD, all of this stuff and I never thought that these things would be possible for me because I was worried when I stopped drinking that all of this was going to come up and it would take me out with the intensity of it, with the magnitude. But you can do it, you can. The only way out is through.
Speaker 1:Wonderful. You're more than welcome.
Speaker 2:Thanks for coming along, take care, thank you.
Speaker 1:Bye everybody Take care. Bye, good night.
